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  1. #1
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    Default Schooling the next generation. free hand grinding spindle moulder knifes

    Had the opportunity to show one of the Waddys a simply way to get custom knifes for the spindle moulder.

    Brent is trying to set of a shop and we have loaded him up with Wadkin machines. All the good ones too.

    He made a video and i thought i would share.

    All tools can be used as hammers

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for the video, an interesting topic that a lot of people need to learn to expand their options.
    But!
    I'm not sure what the point of the whole

    "Schooling the next generation, freehand grinding"

    There is not a single thing done freehand on that video that couldn't have been done just as easily and with a lot more control with a tool rest. What is the point of advocating a potentially dangerous technique unnecessarily?
    I don't have a problem advocating techniques that are potentially dangerous if that is actually what is needed and there is no reasonable alternative but this is just silly.
    Before you go claiming there is no risk, Don't!

    I've crawled around on the floor to pick up fingers torn off by a grinder when someone did something stupid on such a machine, admitttedly, a bit bigger but still this is dangerous.
    A friend who has been a metalworker all his life tore a huge gash across his hand while free handing on a thin wheel just like that and I guarantee he has many, many times the experience in a metal shop that you do. The multiple torn and mutilated tendons required major surgery and his hand has never been right since.
    Masonry discs are not designed to take the sort of sideways loads that could easily be generated holding it unsupported and with so much cantilevered. They shatter which is not fun at all.
    I can see using them on a tool rest if you don't have dressing stones.

    One of my sons is a plastic surgeon and he has a lot of experience with serious hand injuries. He worked construction while at med school and grew up in my shop so he has some idea about our world.
    You would hear the abuse in the Great White Northern land if he caught me doing something like that.

    I think it's great that you are willing to share your knowledge with others, a lot of people quite rightly value your opinion and expertise on many topics but please think about what you advocate especially when you title the thread you way you did.
    What crazy stuff you are willing to do yourself is your own problem but promoting such callous disregard for basic safety for no valid reason is wrong.

    Please continue the videos, you have a lot to offer, but think about what you are advocating.

    Alli

  4. #3
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    Sorry Alli, you've lost me.
    I saw nothing wrong with Jack's technique ?!
    I was schooled in the same process by a 75 year old millwright
    with a life time of expierence.
    Tool rest, no tool rest, it makes no difference.
    I've never had any accidents, near misses, scares, or anything !
    Sorry to dissagree.

    Melbourne Matty.

  5. #4
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    Caroline Springs, VIC
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    Default

    When touching up the spindle moulder knives for slotted collars, I always preffered to do it without a toolrest. I just found it easier to control, especially when grinding in the relief angles. I had more chance of serious injury grinding moulder knives using a Weinig Rondamat profile grinder. I often lost patience with the material removal rate so I would add just a bit too much pressure and BAM! exploding 5mm AlOx grinding wheel 400mm away from my face which was only partially protected with a pair of safety glasses.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    There is not a single thing done freehand on that video that couldn't have been done just as easily and with a lot more control with a tool rest. What is the point of advocating a potentially dangerous technique unnecessarily?
    I'm struggling to understand this ...That is an opinion you have .... that its just as easy using a rest.... which I for one don't agree with, so your proposition that there is no point in advocating the technique is a not relevant.
    You seem to think that your opinion is a self evident fact, which it certainly is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    I don't have a problem advocating techniques that are potentially dangerous if that is actually what is needed and there is no reasonable alternative but this is just silly.
    Before you go claiming there is no risk, Don't!
    Again you are just stating an opinion, which you are entitled to have, and to state clearly.
    Driving to work is a risk, daily activities could be a risk. Your standard of risk taking is entirely your choice.
    You are proposing Jack will claim its risk free.
    I just don't understand why you want him to do that, then you berate him for doing it before he has chance to do it .... Curious .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    I've crawled around on the floor to pick up fingers torn off by a grinder when someone did something stupid on such a machine, admitttedly, a bit bigger but still this is dangerous.
    A friend who has been a metalworker all his life tore a huge gash across his hand while free handing on a thin wheel just like that and I guarantee he has many, many times the experience in a metal shop that you do. The multiple torn and mutilated tendons required major surgery and his hand has never been right since.
    Battle of the experts .... never a worthwhile way of adding to your case when yours is a clumsy oaf.
    I fancy myself as an expert, and I think your expert isn't one. You gave me a good enough reason to not only think it, but an iron clad reason to KNOW it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    One of my sons is a plastic surgeon and he has a lot of experience with serious hand injuries. He worked construction while at med school and grew up in my shop so he has some idea about our world.
    You would hear the abuse in the Great White Northern land if he caught me doing something like that.
    Another battle of the experts.
    If I want to learn anything about plastic surgery I ask for his details. What relevance he brings to your proposal is beyond my grasp.

    I get it ... you wouldn't do it, OK.
    You don't think anyone else should do it. Fine.
    I hear what you are saying and I don't agree with you.

    But why all that fluff and nonsense, and why verbal Jack ?

    Cheers,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  7. #6
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    Yes it is an opinion you are all correct about that.
    I hold very definite views about teaching relative beginners to do something that is not safe. Of course people like Matty who have a lot of experience are going to approach something differently to a beginner but the title of the thread is quite clearly directed to people with no experience or is there some other meaning to the phrase "Schooling the next generation" that escapes my comprehension of the English language.
    I will also disagree that free handing something is as stable and safe as resting it against a tool rest, especially when you are grinding large amounts off as Jack is doing in the first part. He uses a tool rest for the detailed accurate finishing so what is the argument against telling beginners that they need to do that for all the work.
    Matty I know has taught at TAFE, I'm sure that they would love to see someone teaching apprentices to freehand large amounts of material on a grinder. A lot of people have no idea of the forces involved till it happens and then there's a pale face and a quick gasp of breath and that's all if they are lucky.

    Another battle of the experts.
    If I want to learn anything about plastic surgery I ask for his details. What relevance he brings to your proposal is beyond my grasp.
    If you can't figure out why someone who spends their day sewing trashed bodies back together, and hoping to give the person some semblance of normality after, might have an opinion about people who take unnecessary risks then there's not a lot of point in me explaining it.

    With all of these things it s a case of "it's all fine, nothing has ever gone wrong, till it does."
    Then sadly it's too late.
    It is one of the most common scenarios in industrial accidents.
    I've seen lives ruined by a moments inattention or just a freak accident so why anyone would anyone advocate teaching beginners that it's fine not too take basic precautions is beyond me.
    I rest my case
    Battle of the experts .... never a worthwhile way of adding to your case when yours is a clumsy oaf.
    I fancy myself as an expert, and I think your expert isn't one. You gave me a good enough reason to not only think it, but an iron clad reason to KNOW it.
    I think that says it all.

    But why all that fluff and nonsense, and why verbal Jack ?
    If you can't read all of the very positive comments I made towards Jack who I have interacted with for years, then there is no point in me pointing them out.

    Obviously you are all free to tell me that I'm wrong just as it's quite clearly my right to voice an opinion about such matters.

    Alli

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    If you can't figure out why someone who spends their day sewing trashed bodies back together, and hoping to give the person some semblance of normality after, might have an opinion about people who take unnecessary risks then there's not a lot of point in me explaining it.
    Alli
    Ally,

    I'm 100% certain he has strong and worthwhile opinions, and is a lovely fellow, and a wonderful son you are proud of.
    I really, really believe you.
    The problem is that YOU are saying this is dangerous ... not him!
    It just adds a whole lot of nothing to your contention that the process is inherently dangerous. Its that notion I'm rejecting from the outset.

    These other accidents you are reporting, may or may not be relevant to this technique, you just haven't made the connection.
    Again, they aren't saying it is a problem, YOU are. You are trying to attach their problem to this technique as some kind of evidence ... I just cannot for the life of me see how you think it makes your assertions more valid.

    What I don't want to do is, through you, have a discussion with the folk you attach to your argument who aren't here.
    Bring them along to the discussion, and I'll have a chat to them about what they do, and I'm certain they will agree not to tell me what I shouldn't do .... if I don't tell them what they shouldn't do.

    What I'm absolutely certain about is that they wouldn't go on, and on, and on, about it with fluff and nonsense.

    You don't think it's safe ... I heard you loud and clear the first time you said it.

    I think it is just fine if done carefully, and I don't have anybody to help me out, no surgeon son, no accident-prone grand-master metal-smith ... just me.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  9. #8
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    Thank you for your condescending post. Maybe you should spend the time actually reading what I wrote instead of all this other stuff you seem so happy to post to deflect from the issue.
    To save you hunting for the answer to your question.

    A friend who has been a metalworker all his life tore a huge gash across his hand while free handing on a thin wheel just like that and I guarantee he has many, many times the experience in a metal shop that you do. The multiple torn and mutilated tendons required major surgery and his hand has never been right since.
    Is the connection clear enough in that quote?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    Thank you for your condescending post. Maybe you should spend the time actually reading what I wrote instead of all this other stuff you seem so happy to post to deflect from the issue.
    To save you hunting for the answer to your question.



    Is the connection clear enough in that quote?

    Ally,
    Can't understand how you get condescending from what I wrote.

    oh well....
    as usual, when the argument is week the abuse gets strong.

    Like I said, I heard you the first time, and still think you are wrong.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  11. #10
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    some more reckless tooling

    All tools can be used as hammers

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allison74 View Post
    Thanks for the video, an interesting topic that a lot of people need to learn to expand their options.
    But!
    I'm not sure what the point of the whole

    "Schooling the next generation, freehand grinding"

    There is not a single thing done freehand on that video that couldn't have been done just as easily and with a lot more control with a tool rest. What is the point of advocating a potentially dangerous technique unnecessarily?
    I don't have a problem advocating techniques that are potentially dangerous if that is actually what is needed and there is no reasonable alternative but this is just silly.
    Before you go claiming there is no risk, Don't!

    I've crawled around on the floor to pick up fingers torn off by a grinder when someone did something stupid on such a machine, admitttedly, a bit bigger but still this is dangerous.
    A friend who has been a metalworker all his life tore a huge gash across his hand while free handing on a thin wheel just like that and I guarantee he has many, many times the experience in a metal shop that you do. The multiple torn and mutilated tendons required major surgery and his hand has never been right since.
    Masonry discs are not designed to take the sort of sideways loads that could easily be generated holding it unsupported and with so much cantilevered. They shatter which is not fun at all.
    I can see using them on a tool rest if you don't have dressing stones.

    One of my sons is a plastic surgeon and he has a lot of experience with serious hand injuries. He worked construction while at med school and grew up in my shop so he has some idea about our world.
    You would hear the abuse in the Great White Northern land if he caught me doing something like that.

    I think it's great that you are willing to share your knowledge with others, a lot of people quite rightly value your opinion and expertise on many topics but please think about what you advocate especially when you title the thread you way you did.
    What crazy stuff you are willing to do yourself is your own problem but promoting such callous disregard for basic safety for no valid reason is wrong.

    Please continue the videos, you have a lot to offer, but think about what you are advocating.

    Alli

    Where is this “Great white Northern Land” of which you speak?

  13. #12
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    Dec 2007
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    Canada.
    Jack lives a bit out of Ottawa.
    He’s a into Wadkin gear.
    Posts on the Canadian Woodwork Forum.
    Got a neat workshop and does a bit of classy Joinery.
    Visited a few years back, good bloke with a neat setup.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by clear out View Post
    ...Posts on the Canadian Woodwork Forum...
    ...only very occasionally these days .

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

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