Thread: Wadkin chisel and chain mortiser FB market place

Hi Vann,

Looking at your list of Test Numbers I see a ME 239 Test 2085 that lives in NZ, do you know the owner of that ME or do you have pic's of it, because if I am correct it should be a single shaft machine.

Looking at this picture from 1924 there seems to be 6 Wadkin Single Shafts ME's sitting in a row, I think they were cast in batches of 6, it looks like they have some of there wheels fitted.

Erecting Shop.jpg

Is there 6 standing and another 6 on their backs, some on trestles?

Originally Posted by auscab

Is there 6 standing and another 6 on there backs, some on trestles?

I wasn't sure about those because they didn't look very wide, but the shape of the bottom of the casting looks right with the bolt down floor lugs

Found this ME illustration from a 1928 Catalogue, still single shaft, but look at the direct drive motor configuration.

Wadkin 1928 Single Shaft.jpg

Originally Posted by Camelot

...do you have pic's of it, because if I am correct it should be a single shaft machine.

It's in Oamaru (in the South Island).

ME 239a.jpg

ME 239b.jpg

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann,

Thank you for the pic's, they confirm what I thought about the single shaft for the lever pull downs on the earlier ME's, the other interesting thing about the pull down levers on this ME is only the raised name "Chain" is molded into the casting for the Chain lever the other lever you would normally see "Chisel" molded into the casting like what can be seen on Andy's later ME, but on this machine it's missing.

Also apart from the single shaft difference with these early ME's your pic's show the clamp for holding the stock in place, which is different to the later ME (the later ME's clamp was carried forward and used in Wadkin's next model the MF) in these early ME's the clamp had 2 levers and a channel (a bit like a dovetail channel) in the bed below the clamp running in the direction of where the stock would be held in place, so this channel allowed the clamp to traverse along the channel for quick adjustment when wider stock needed to be mortised, this clamp was held in place by tightening the top lever.

In the later model ME's this sliding clamp arrangement was changed and the channel was removed from the bed with the clamp now just bolted directly to the bed with 2 or maybe 3 spaced apart bolt down locations (maybe Andy can confirm there are only 2/3 set of bolt holes in the bed of his ME), however on the later model MF's Wadkin introduced a number of bolt down locations for the clamp allowing it to again be moved along the bed to accommodate wider stock albeit now you had to use a spanner.

My guess is Wadkin stopped using the early ME's adjustment method for the clamp due to customer feedback, I think the clamping pressure to hold the stock in place was too great and tightening that top lever by hand wasn't enough to prevent the stock from becoming loose. The ME Andy posted from FB which started this thread off, shows the original clamp is missing and replaced with a pneumatic one, which will probably be for the reasons I have stated, or maybe the thread got stripped from trying to tighten it enough to stop it from moving.

Cheers Nigel

Originally Posted by Camelot

Hi Vann,



Also apart from the single shaft difference with these early ME's your pic's show the clamp for holding the stock in place, which is different to the later ME (the later ME's clamp was carried forward and used in Wadkin's next model the MF) in these early ME's the clamp had 2 levers and a channel (a bit like a dovetail channel) in the bed below the clamp running in the direction of where the stock would be held in place, so this channel allowed the clamp to traverse along the channel for quick adjustment when wider stock needed to be mortised, this clamp was held in place by tightening the top lever.

Just looking at my catalog picture It looks to be a T slot machined in the bed to take the stock clamp.

I first thought your offer of a MF clamp would solve the problem nicely of the missing clamp on the ME FB market place machine well. The Wadkin LQ uses the same type of clamp as the MF and I had to buy one from the UK to replace the missing one on My LQ.

That missing clamp on the ME! Now that makes it a very hard fix doesn't it.

Seeing Vann's pictures the acme thread looks to run horizontal as well. The MF type was at an angle going down. The MF type would be better at locking the stock in place probably.

Ever had a chisel stuck in a piece of stock on a MF? It happens. Careful starting of the mortise is the way its avoided. Small stepped bites at first for every mortise. If You just try a single deep plunge and it sticks. Which it will do. Just trying to lift it back out with the lever arms and not have the wood shifting in the clamp isn't going to happen easy. Even with a few good tighten attempts sometimes. I think Ive had to fit folded sand paper either side for extra grip.

Another thing of interest is the Two lever arms on the single shaft. I have a Wolfenden chisel and chain that uses one arm on a single shaft and it has a lever that has to be shifted left or right to engage either the chisel or the chain. The shafts shifts and changes gear.

So hows the ME single shaft with its two arms doing this? Operating the chisel or the chain? Is it a shaft inside another shaft? I think it must be . Or what ? Ive been looking for a lever or something just quickly and haven't spotted anything yet.

Hi Rob,

Yes the later clamps were angled down, so Wadkin were definitely looking to address the movement of stock, I have attached a couple of pics from later ME's the first is from another ME currently for sale on FB, the clamp is angled down and the back of the bed where the stock would sit has been raised in the middle (on the earlier ME this was straight all the way along, like can be seen in the pic's you have posted for the one for sale on FB) the second pic is of Andy's ME where Wadkin have now introduced a round bar that runs parallel with the clamps screwing mechanism this bar must have been added to help prevent the clamp from twisting when coming into contact with the stock and this design was carried forward to the later MF models.

My offer of the MF clamp would probably work if I let them have the full carriage, because I think it would fit, but it all depends on how bothered the new owner will be about the missing part, will they be buying it just to do a job or as a custodian where they will form part of the machines history.

ME Clamp.jpg ME Clamp 2.jpg

Cheers Nigel

Originally Posted by auscab

Another thing of interest is the Two lever arms on the single shaft. I have a Wolfenden chisel and chain that uses one arm on a single shaft and it has a lever that has to be shifted left or right to engage either the chisel or the chain. The shafts shifts and changes gear.

So hows the ME single shaft with its two arms doing this? Operating the chisel or the chain? Is it a shaft inside another shaft? I think it must be . Or what ? Ive been looking for a lever or something just quickly and haven't spotted anything yet.

Yes I was thinking of how that would work, I think a hollow lever with the other one inside and Wadkin probably changed the design to make the hollow one more robust.

I enlarged this picture last night to point out the other possible 6 machines laying down.
Hows the young fella working in amongst the machines. Looks like a boy. Child labor at Wadkin?
Or a 1st year apprentice machinist maybe? How old were boys starting apprenticeships in the 1920s in England ? 14 to 15 ? Maybe younger.
There was a thread the other day with a link to a guy who started his trade with Norris planes around this time that described him leaving school . Ill try and find that .


IMG_2879aaa.jpg

Originally Posted by auscab

I enlarged this picture last night to point out the other possible 6 machines laying down...

Batches of a dozen, or multiples thereof, seem to be the norm at Wadkin.

Cheers, Vann.