Thread: Wadkin EKA

Nice one .
Whats scrap value for that amount of cast iron? Can you do that sort of weld repair or do you have someone to do it?
That'd take a decent bit of jigging, two Oxy LPG gas set ups, two blokes and one decent arc welder I'd think.
edit. You may get away with one gas set up for the heating.

Nice find mate. I can’t see from the pics is it a 4 or 5 head one? Looks like it needs some love. Nice to find it local

Originally Posted by auscab

Nice one .
Whats scrap value for that amount of cast iron? Can you do that sort of weld repair or do you have someone to do it?
That'd take a decent bit of jigging, two Oxy LPG gas set ups, two blokes and one decent arc welder I'd think.
edit. You may get away with one gas set up for the heating.

The seller was quoting $320 per tonne and thought the machine weighed 2.5 tonnes, I showed him it was 1.6 tonnes and based on that we cut a deal and I was happy to save the machine.

Yes I will look to weld is myself either with my old stick welder or my newer Boss Powerpro 250 Mig/Tig/Stick welder, the method I will use to help keep the geometry correct is grind a "V" at each end and probably in the middle and then tack weld these to hold the pieces together while I grind back the rest of the area to be repaired. I will pre heat and use a Cast Iron filler type rod, once finished I will cover the joint over with sand (a lot of sand) to try and retain the heat.

If the weld fails I have also thought about sandwiching the break between 2 x 10 or 12mm metal plates say 400 to 500mm long (not sure what width yet) and bolting the plates together either side of the break with 2 or 3 bolts per side, it will not be a nice looking repair but it should be functional.

You may have noticed this is a SC Wadkin and the castings in a few places are different to Wadkin's built in-house, the tables have cut outs in the castings which may have been to save weight, but I don't think they are as strong as the solid castings off the in- house Wadkin machines.

I thought the EC replaced the EKA but they seem to have offered both machines for well over a 20 year period, not sure how to date this SC Wadkin, I do like the looks of the EKA for than my EC

Originally Posted by amh_joinery

Nice find mate. I can’t see from the pics is it a 4 or 5 head one? Looks like it needs some love. Nice to find it local

Yes it's a 5 head, if you look at the first pic (top row left) you can see the cut off saw adjustment wheel and the third pic (same row) shows a cutter block where the cut off saw blade should be.

It was nice to find a machine local, but like you say it needs quite a bit of love after 20 plus years outside under a tarp.

The welding sounds the way to go . Hopefully you wont need extra plates of steel.

I didn't notice the SC. The open frames like on yours are Wadkin. They did them open then later went solid one piece. I have a EKA leaflet here that is your type with the open frames.

Rob

Pictures from a 1949 leaflet.

IMG_2585a.jpg IMG_2586a.jpg IMG_2587a.jpg

One thing that was pointed out to me about the EKA is they can do those Square turnings pictured in the middle left of third picture . The ECA cant do that past something like 4 or 5 inches on an end of a post but an EKA can have the post stuck out further and do that sort of moulding further down .
Middle picture has some attachment added that must lock both top and bottom heads as one. like later ECA machines have as a lever on top. Ive never noticed that before .
That would prevent the square turning possibilities which is why it must come off if needed?

Originally Posted by auscab

The welding sounds the way to go . Hopefully you wont need extra plates of steel.

I didn't notice the SC. The open frames like on yours are Wadkin. They did them open then later went solid one piece. I have a EKA leaflet here that is your type with the open frames.

Rob

If like you say open frames were on all early EKA's then that will help giving the machine a dating period, just need to find out when they started going solid.

Originally Posted by auscab

Pictures from a 1949 leaflet.

IMG_2585a.jpg IMG_2586a.jpg IMG_2587a.jpg

One thing that was pointed out to me about the EKA is they can do those Square turnings pictured in the middle left of third picture . The ECA cant do that past something like 4 or 5 inches on an end of a post but an EKA can have the post stuck out further and do that sort of moulding further down .
Middle picture has some attachment added that must lock both top and bottom heads as one. like later ECA machines have as a lever on top. Ive never noticed that before .
That would prevent the square turning possibilities which is why it must come off if needed?

Thanks for posting the leaflet, that looks identical to mine, with the large bolt down lugs to the main casting, which on later machines Wadkin did away with, yes the attachment for moving the heads together once the tenon thickness was dialled in was an optional extra

Nice save.

Originally Posted by Camelot

...You may have noticed this is a SC Wadkin...

Yup. Thanks for the tag photo.

Those "tin tags" were in use from mid 1936 to mid 1951, so that gives a 15 year span. However, some time in 1949 Wadkin changed from cast iron handwheels to aluminium handwheels, so that knocks two years off the time line.

Originally Posted by Camelot

...the castings in a few places are different to Wadkin's built in-house...

I could be wrong, but I believe that Wadkin supplied castings and components to their sub-contractors. I would guess that the sub-contractors machined the castings and then did the assembly and fitting to Wadkin standards. So I support Auscab's suggestion that this is an earlier model, before the casting openings were closed in.

Maybe Auscab can use his catalogues to get a feeling for when that change occurred - which might tighten up the 'build time' some more.

The stamping on the tag is very straight (unlike Green Lane stamping which tended to be all over the place, and often overstamped). I notice it bears a strong resemblance to the stamping by the Royal Ordinance Factory who were a Wadkin sub-contractor.

EKA 670s sc2348 Aus.jpg Ordinance.jpg

The other two known sub-contractors to Wadkin are Sentinel Ltd and Vickers Armstrong Ltd, and both used different stamps - at least at the time of the examples I've been shown. No doubt there were a few other sub-contractors too, but I'd say there's a fair chance your Wadkin EKA was built by the Royal Ordinance Factory in Nottingham.

Originally Posted by Camelot

...I thought the EC replaced the EKA but they seem to have offered both machines for well over a 20 year period, not sure how to date this SC Wadkin, I do like the looks of the EKA for than my EC

I think the EK/EKA was for larger work and the EC/ECA was for smaller stuff.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann,

Thanks for the dating information, regarding the two types of machines being offered for small v larger joints, they both have 2HP motors, so maybe the more solid/rigid design of the EKA was better for removing more stock in a single pass

I have a 1947 catalog and the 1949 leaflet and both pictures of the EKA have the open frame casting.

Originally Posted by auscab

I have a 1947 catalog and the 1949 leaflet and both pictures of the EKA have the open frame casting.

Well that seems to narrow it down, if the wheels changed in 1949 to aluminium and open castings were still being offered in that year, then that should make it no later than a 1949 machine, but could be still a few years earlier. I found this one on UK Ebay, it is a SC machine but older than mine.

EKA pic 1.JPG EKA pic 2.JPG EKA pic 3.jpg

EKA pic.jpg EKA pic 5.JPG

Mine, Machine No. EKA 670 S Test No. SC 2348
Ebay, Machine No. EKA 509 S, Test No. SC 2187

So SC machine Tags had the SC prefix has part of the Test No. (meaning Subcontractor) and a Suffix which was part of the Machine No. and on both these 2 Tags it is an "S", so does this Suffix denote the Subcontractor that built the machine, Vanns example above of a DN Tag was also an "S", so did Wadkin give each SC a different Suffix?

Originally Posted by Camelot

...So SC machine Tags had the SC prefix has part of the Test No. (meaning Subcontractor) and a Suffix which was part of the Machine No. and on both these 2 Tags it is an "S", so does this Suffix denote the Subcontractor that built the machine, Vanns example above of a DN Tag was also an "S", so did Wadkin give each SC a different Suffix?

No, it appears that Wadkin gave all sub-contractor built machines their own machine number (not necessarily in sequence either) and an 'S' on the end. Then they put an 'SC' in front of the test number. However the SC is less consistent.

For example: Sentinel built a number of EPA spindle moulders for Wadkin. Earlier machines had a date (presumably the test date - there are no known records) stamped in place of a test number, while later machines had an SC test number.

Here's a list of known EPAs, stolen from the Canadian forum. All the tags are "tin tags". Sentinel indicates they have a 'made by Sentinel' tag as well:

EPA 139s, test 11 4 46;
EPA 192s, test 3 3 46;
EPA 225s, test 17 6 46 - Sentinel;
EPA 462s, test 12 5 47 - Sentinel;
EPA 621s, test 22 1 48 - Sentinel;
EPA 833s, test 26 10 48 - Sentinel;
EPA 917s, test 6.1.49 - Sentinel;
EPA 1046s, test 5 5 49;
EPA 1126s, test 9 8 49 - Sentinel;
EPA 1154s, test 31 8 49 - Sentinel;
EPA 1197s, test sc3545 - Sentinel;
EPA 1205s, test sc3553 - Sentinel;
EPA 1247s, test sc3607 - Sentinel;
EPA 1286s, test sc3626 - Sentinel;
EPA 1287s, test sc3636 - Sentinel;
EPA 1406s, test sc4602 - Sentinel;
EPA 1433s, test sc4631;
EPA 1573s, test sc4919 - Sentinel;
EPA 1586s, test sc4926.

So while all have "S" machine numbers, only the latter half have "SC" test numbers. There are no known records of who sub-contractors are (only tags on machines), nor of how many sub-contracted machines there are. And the numbers are hard to estimate due to the machine numbers usually not being sequential.

If I haven't already bored you to death, there's more detail here: Wadkin EPA -

Canadian Woodworking and Home Improvement Forum

Cheers, Vann.

Here's the full 1949 leaflet including the other pictures posted before.
The one online at Daltons looks later and pictures not so good.

IMG_2590a.jpg IMG_2591a.jpg IMG_2592a.jpg IMG_2593a.jpg IMG_2594a.jpg

IMG_2595a.jpgIMG_2596a.jpg IMG_2597a.jpg

And the EKA from that 1936 catalog in another thread I posted for a bit of comparison with the 1949.

Untitled 1936.jpg IMG_2592a.jpg

Rob .