Thread: Wadkin RD Planer Cutter Head

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...I don't know who does that kind of work but If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great.

Hi S&S.

The studs on my Wadkin RB had been abused and I wanted to replace them. The RB uses the same cutterblock design as the RD and RM, but shorter (9"). I wanted the new studs to be as similar as possible so I approached a local firm with CNC lathes. 4140 steel. Minimum economic batch was 50 of each. From memory they cost ~$10 NZD each.

The nuts are a low profile shape so they don't protrude above the clamshell. I had mine made to the exact same shape as the Wadkin originals. Again 4140 steel. And about the same price.

It's important to keep your cutterblock balanced. In order to do this your studs should be fitted in pairs (opposite sides of the cutterblock) and each pair of studs should weigh within 0.2g of each other. Similarly the nuts - but as these get swapped around at blade changes, best to have all ten within that range (or mark them to indicated weighed pairs).

RB 548.jpg RB 546.jpg

I have spares if you want some - at cost.

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann,

Thanks for getting in touch.
Thats a great price for the studs, just a shame that the minimum order was 50. Did you order them all the same? Length of stud, thread length, shoulder length, and then cut them down to suit the skew on the cutter head? Mine being 16 inches wide, they taper down from one side to the other.
I'm not overly confident with fitting new studs but my old man is a fitter machinist so I'm hoping he can help.

So, just too make sure I'm understanding correctly, when fitting the studs I work on one face at a time from the outside in, then in pairs I match them as I move to the middle? Eg: The two outside ones being 60.2 grams, the next two inside them 60.0 and the middle one 59.8?

IMG_7872.jpg
Or, do I match the studs from the opposite side, by that I mean screwing two studs the same weight (within 0.2 gram) into the same hole from both sides?

IMG_7873.jpg

I'd love to learn more about the balancing process and how its done, sounds really interesting.
What spares do you have? Studs and Nuts, or just one or the other? I can get a full set of replacement 5/8 nuts from AMS I think but the studs I've got no idea where to start.

Cheers

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...So, just too make sure I'm understanding correctly...
...Or, do I match the studs from the opposite side, by that I mean screwing two studs the same weight (within 0.2 gram) into the same hole from both sides?

IMG_7873.jpg

The latter.

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...I'm not overly confident with fitting new studs but my old man is a fitter machinist so I'm hoping he can help...

...I'd love to learn more about the balancing process and how its done, sounds really interesting...

I wasn't confident either - and procrastination is my 'go to' place when unsure - that's why I still don't have a working buzzer after ~4 years. But once I got into it, it went well.

Here's me doing one of my cutterblocks (post #12 on the first page): Wadkin RB Stand Type Buzzer

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...Did you order them all the same? Length of stud, thread length, shoulder length, and then cut them down to suit the skew on the cutter head? Mine being 16 inches wide, they taper down from one side to the other...

To be honest, over the three studs in my 9" cutterblock, I didn't notice any difference in the length of the old studs. The new ones are all the same length as each other. I really don't know if Wadkin made them shorter to allow for the skew.

The reason I had them CNC machined is because I wanted the collar in exactly the same place on each stud. If they are required to be within 0.2g of each other for balancing purposes - then having one screwed in 1/8" deeper than it's mate, that is having it's centre-of-gravity 1/8" closer to the axis it's spinning on, that's going to be equivalent to far more difference in balance than 0.2g.

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...What spares do you have? Studs and Nuts, or just one or the other? I can get a full set of replacement 5/8 nuts from AMS I think but the studs I've got no idea where to start.

It would be interesting to know how much AMS want per nut?

I have two RB's (both still unfinished ) so I have used 12 studs and 12 nuts. I've parted with a few more, but I still have around 2 dozen of each left - so if mine are cheaper than AMS...

Cheers, Vann.

Vann,

Thank you for clearing that up. I'll be sure to keep that in mind when fitting the studs. I measured each stud and from one side to the other on my other RD and they drop down 1mm, so the highest is 28mm exposed and the lowest is 24mm exposed. Thats not the length of thread, that the overall length of the stud including the shoulder protruding from the head.

At this stage, if I started with studs all the same, same shoulder, same length, same weight, I can work from there and hopefully screw one down until it bottoms out at the shoulder then increase by 1mm as I go across, using loctite of course to get it exactly like my other one.

Mate, if you are willing to part with 10 studs and 10 nuts, I would be forever grateful. AMS are selling the nuts for the $35 AUD plus shipping on top, which is a bit rich I think. What is your price?

Cheers

Originally Posted by scholey&sons

...AMS are selling the nuts for the $35 AUD plus shipping on top, which is a bit rich I think. What is your price?

I only want back what they cost me. I just dug out the paperwork. They charged me $9.50 per stud, so with GST (15% over here) that's $10.925 each. $8.50 per nut, so $9.775 including GST. All NZD. There was no courier charge - I picked them up from the firm. However postage to Aus will be on you.

But before we go further - do you have any way of determining whether those 5/8" bolts are BSW or UNC? I don't know if putting BSW threads into UNC holes would compromise safety (nobody whats to be standing in line when a clamshell comes loose at 4200 rpm ). I don't have enough engineering knowledge to know if that's a problem or not - but if they put UNC bolts in they may have run a 5/8" UNC tap down the holes first.

Either way, I found running a 5/8" BSW tap down the holes before fitting the studs really made a huge difference. Do you (or your dad) have access to a 5/8" BSW tap (I think I used a bottoming tap) to clean up the threads?

Nuts&Studs.jpg

Cheers, Vann.

When I took the studs out of the head of my first Wadkin buzzer, I found they were 2" long, with 1" of thread (into the cutterblock), 1/8" un-threaded shoulder, then 7/8" thread (nut end). So that's what I ordered.

Later, when I took the studs out of the second cutterblock, I found they were only 1 7/8" long, with 7/8" thread either end of the 1/8" un-threaded shoulder.

I cut the studs shorter for my second buzzer. However, your proposal to fit the studs progressively 1mm higher means your shortest studs will protrude 25.4mm (so you can grind ~1.4mm off the length of that pair); your second pair will be about right (25mm vrs 25.4mm); through to your final pair which, at 28mm, will finish up 3mm short of the shoulder - but will still have 7/8" of thread into the cutterblock. So that should work out well.

The alternative would be to set each stud with the 7/8" end into the cutterblock, hard against the shoulder, and dock the other ends accordingly.

Either way, matching pairs to within 0.2g will be a good idea (less vibration and longer bearing life with a well balanced cutterblock). Do you have accurate scales? If not, do you want me to grind each pair and match their weights? My scales go to 0.1g (and I matched my pairs to less than 0.1g).

Cheers, Vann.

Just thought I'd play devil's advocate here and ask, if your cutter head, bearings, and table look to have very little use, and are in amazing condition, what makes you think that these suggested original studs had a much harder life and were replaced at some stage by bolts ?! May l put it up that those bolts are original to the machine?!
Melbourne Matty ..

Vann,

Yes I do, I have a couple of brand new 5/8 BSW bolts in my inventory so I tested them out and they fit perfectly. The bolts that came from the head are clean and the threads look to be in great shape, as do the threaded holes in the head. I will definitely run a 5/8 BSW tap down to make sure the holes are clean before installing the studs. My father will have one in his tool kit for sure mate. I couldn't agree more, the last thing I want is the clams flying across the workshop and causing damage to the machine or worse, myself.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Vann

I cut the studs shorter for my second buzzer. However, your proposal to fit the studs progressively 1mm higher means your shortest studs will protrude 25.4mm (so you can grind ~1.4mm off the length of that pair); your second pair will be about right (25mm vrs 25.4mm); through to your final pair which, at 28mm, will finish up 3mm short of the shoulder - but will still have 7/8" of thread into the cutterblock. So that should work out well.



Cheers, Vann.

Fitting these studs progressively will be a challenge but if I start studs with matching weights I should be ok. I don't want to cut them down if I can help it but if I do i'll have to make sure they are the same. Ill send through a picture of the studs on my other RD tomorrow and show you want im looking at because its hard to explain without a picture.

I have a couple of options as to how to orientate the studs when install, I just hope I can get it right, because I don't want to stuff this up.

Mate, if you could do that, I would be over the moon. That would give me a great head start. I'll get back to you via email and we can chat.

Cheers
S&S

It's definitely a possibility Matty. My original thoughts were that because this head didn't have the dovetail slots for the moulding knives that this head was held with bolts. But, there are a couple of signs that these bolts are not original and the studs has been removed at some point.

On the underside of the plate I put a straight edge to check the holes were not deformed or distorted in anyway. Unfortunately I found a couple on both plates that had distorted, indicating that the studs may have been overtightened at some stage causing them too stretch. The other being the bolts themselves. Most Wadkin bolts I have come across have a domed end... the bolts from the head did not. They look like old bolts but they are not a Wadkin.

I'll keep researching, there may be an explanation as to why bolts were used instead of studs...

Cheers
S&S

Thanks S&S . It was just a thought.
Is it a skew head or angled head ?
And does your first RD run studs ?
Melbourne Matty.

Matty,

My first RD has studs, still in good condition with not visible issues.
It's the skew type head as far as I know, I'm not sure I know the difference between skewed and angled...
My second RD does not have the slots for moulding knives, just have the two planer knives with the set screws for adjusting height.

S&S

Hi S&S.

I think we need some toolporn - can you put up photos of your two machines please? Photos of the tags would be appreciated too.

Cheers, Vann.

Vann,

Here are some shots of my first RD.


IMG_6150 2.jpg IMG_7893.jpg IMG_7894.jpg IMG_7895.jpg

IMG_7896.jpg IMG_7899.jpg

This is my second RD.

E014CCF1-E165-4AEE-B2C2-47C9799D8C4F.JPG 2DB1D84A-DF38-4BBA-AF19-72D32301E044.JPG B49A27DC-DB8B-4A0E-9777-1BB9913C3A37.JPG CDBDB6FC-3922-42B9-88B1-53377FB52A6E.JPG E61CC220-6BB2-45A0-BA89-400FCA10270D.JPG 2A88C8C6-E7BA-4CA0-B8B0-7DB52A05FFFA.JPG 00520E29-83E1-4204-AFEA-3324B948BD23.jpg