Thread: Challenge 20 - 21. Ironwood.

Originally Posted by Ironwood

......The visible difference in colour doesn’t bother me too much, I can certainly live with it....

It's certainly no big deal, you rarely look that closely at a plane sole, and the rivets are unlikely to ever come loose unless you were very slap-dash setting them. Just my obsessive nature, it's my badge of honour to get them perfect if I can. I've got several planes that you won't see anything at all on the sole side, you'd have to take the blade out to check there's actually an extra bit in there, and I'm very happy with that, but there's also a couple where I can clearly see where the rivets are, even though they're as tight as could be. You can see the outlines of some or all of the dovetails in photos of some oldies, so I suspect blade-block rivets are evident on some, too. Nothing's perfect!

Cheers,

So I have been forging on making small progress. I have finished filing the mouth for now, I think I have the blade ramp as flat and true as I am going to get it using files. The line between the sole and chatter block has all but disappeared. There is still a bit of metal to come off the front of the mouth to allow the blade to protrude, but I will leave that to much later.
The mouth ended up getting a bit wider than I planned, it is at 51mm now, but should be still within the sides when they are peened on.

I have got a few other things I need to do, so I might not get back to the plane until late this afternoon.
A few mods to the peening block, and I should be right to start peening this afternoon or in the morning.
Need to have a good look at my hammers, I think the 2lb ballpein I used for the rivets might be a bit overkill. I probably have at least 8 ballpein hammers of varying sizes.

Watching with interest and looking forward to the result. Maybe post some pictures of your set-up as well. Would like to know how you do it.

Hope it goes as planned.

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Originally Posted by Ironwood

.... I think the 2lb ballpein I used for the rivets might be a bit overkill. I probably have at least 8 ballpein hammers of varying sizes....

That's exactly twice the size of my preferred weapon for peening the pins & tails [Edit: no it's not, it's 4 times! ]. To each his own, but the most common advice is to use lots of small blows rather than a few big ones. I also hold the handle much closer to the head than I would driving nails, to make it easier to do lots of rapid strikes.

You're younger & probably a good deal stronger than I am, so the weight isn't so much an issue for you, but it's also about the size of the head. The bigger the ball, the bigger & flatter the dimple it makes, & the harder it is to see what's happening down where the rubber is meeting the road. Try an 8 or 10 oz. job if you've got those sizes & see how it goes.

Where's Matt - he will have swung more hammers in his time than most of us put together - what size hammers do you prefer?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Ironwood

Need to have a good look at my hammers, I think the 2lb ballpein I used for the rivets might be a bit overkill. I probably have at least 8 ballpein hammers of varying sizes.

Looks like Brad has a good choice to hand.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Looks like Brad has a good choice to hand.

Regards
Paul

I do have a large array of hammers, I could probably find 30 or 40 if you are counting all types, but most of mine are on the larger size, I am a Diesel Fitter, we usually go for something that will do the job in the least amount of hits .
I do have a baby ballpein hammer that I use for making gaskets, I think it will be too small, but I will weigh it and compare to Ian’s recommendations.

Originally Posted by IanW

That's exactly twice the size of my preferred weapon for peening the pins & tails. To each his own, but the most common advice is to use lots of small blows rather than a few big ones. I also hold the handle much closer to the head than I would driving nails, to make it easier to do lots of rapid strikes.

You're younger & probably a good deal stronger than I am, so the weight isn't so much an issue for you, but it's also about the size of the head. The bigger the ball, the bigger & flatter the dimple it makes, & the harder it is to see what's happening down where the rubber is meeting the road. Try an 8 or 10 oz. job if you've got those sizes & see how it goes.

Where's Matt - he will have swung more hammers in his time than most of us put together - what size hammers do you prefer?

Cheers,

He was working (stupid society idea)!!!.


Ian 90 percent of panel beating in the smash repair industry is mostly done with just a planishing hammer or my favourite a body slapper and dolly.
There both quite light tools really.
Coach building(Making panels, use a lot more hammers of varying weights tho.
Shaping hammers are bloody heavy!!!!


For me I used 8 an Oz hammer , and similar to you hold it quite close to the head(I think that’s called chocking?).
Also yes small repetition tapping seemed to be the go.
I sort of rock the hammer in my palm.
Tho saying all that a slightly heavy hammer might be good to start with.
I only have a 8 Oz in Melbourne so that’s what gets used.
But then it deepens who’s swinging the hammers, a light weight 16 year old with hooodles of enthusiasm.
Or a hardened blacksmith who’s only been without a hammer in there hands on Sundays.

But if you have a few hammers to pick, it won’t take long before you know which one works for you.

Cheers Matt.
I don’t think I actually answered the question lol.

I took the electronic scales down to the shed and pulled a few hammers. The scales only do grams, so I had to convert to oz's.
DSC_1571.jpg

The 2 on the right are the smallest ones I can find.
The 3rd one is my baby gasket hammer which came in at 173g ( 6.1 oz )
The 4th one is 469g ( 16.5 oz )
The 2nd one with the blue handle is my favourite hammer that Ive had since the first year of my apprenticeship. Its had about 6 new handles so far, but I havent had to replace the head yet.
This is the one I peened the chatter block rivets with, it weighs in at 1450g ( 51 oz )
The first one which has a terrible handle ( its a Trojan handle I put on a couple of years ago ) lives near the door of the shed, I use it for cracking Macadamia nuts, its 1335g ( 45.5 oz ) I noticed it had a stamp on the head, I gave it a buff and see its a Falcon made in South Africa.
DSC_1572.jpg

I think I will use the black one on the far right for the dovetails, I will give the faces a good clean and polish, as its been abused and neglected for most of its life by the look of it.

I didnt play with hammers all day, I did get a bit of other stuff done too.
I tipped metho on the sole to get rid of the red marking dye, Wow that stuff gets everywhere.
It even started to seep out of the join between the chatter block and the sole
DSC_1565.jpg

Gave the inside bits of the sides a rub with some 400 w&d and a hit on the buff.
DSC_1567.jpg

I saw on instagram where someone was using one of these reamers to flare the holes for peining the pins, so I got mine out and gave the holes for the crosspin a bit of a flare.
DSC_1569.jpg

I got the peening block notched out and ready. Just need to work out what I am going to use to clamp the sides. Ian shows bolts in the good book, but I have seen others use screws and washers.
Will think on it overnight. Suggestions/advice welcome. I do use a bigger hammer than most ( apparently ), so something that can cope with the stresses will be necessary.
DSC_1566.jpg

Just a quick "whats on the bench" shot.
At least one reader should recognise the marking gauge , one of my favourite tools.
DSC_1570.jpg

Originally Posted by Ironwood

I got the peening block notched out and ready. Just need to work out what I am going to use to clamp the sides. Ian shows bolts in the good book, but I have seen others use screws and washers.
Will think on it overnight. Suggestions/advice welcome. I do use a bigger hammer than most ( apparently ), so something that can cope with the stresses will be necessary.
DSC_1566.jpg

Just a quick "whats on the bench" shot.
At least one reader should recognise the marking gauge , one of my favourite tools.
DSC_1570.jpg

After my first experience now I'd say use bolts. Make sure nothing can move and probably even more important when clamping is harder on the rounded sides.

Looking good so far I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Ironwood

Just a quick "whats on the bench" shot.
At least one reader should recognise the marking gauge , one of my favourite tools.
DSC_1570.jpg

Looks to me more like a blatant attempt to win favour with one of the judges.

I really think there should be a points deduction system incorporated into the judging formula for cases like this.

Originally Posted by doug3030

Looks to me more like a blatant attempt to win favour with one of the judges.....

I see nothing.......

Brad, the 2oz, jobbie is certainly on the small side. I use one of those for setting 1/16" rivets, but it is a bit small for the sort of peening you're about to embark on, alright! You'll probably find the 16 oz does the best job for you out of that lot. Try not to use heavy blows, as I said, you'll find it hard to move the metal predictably if you hit too hard. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it before long.

I have used screws on small plane bodies, but through bolts are better. Bolts are cheap (& re-usable!) and hold more reliably. Put as many bolts through as you think it needs, & try to drill the bolt holes accurately so the sides sit on the bolt shafts, leaving a small gap between the peening block & the sole. Use as large & thick washers as you can find, they'll mark the brass a little bit but any marks are easily sanded off at clean-up time.

With curved sides in particular, I usually need a couple of extra clamps to pull the sides firmly against the sole, the bolts being only along the tops of the sides tends to cause curved sides to splay a bit. The clamps are a right pita because they get in your way and you have to keep moving them until you get the pins closed enough to hold everything firmly. Putting some wood screws through the holes fro the cross-pins might be enough to pull the sides against the block and sole, and you may not need any extra clamps. That will make life a lot easier when you start peening.

I find peening the pins is the easy part, even though you are moving a lot more metal, because the opposite side is supported very solidly on the anvil, so each hammer strike has a good effect. The curved sides make it a bit harder 'cause you have to keep rolling the plane & block so that the pin opposite the one you are clobbering is resting on the anvil. After a while, the arm holding the plane starts complaining more than my hammering arm when doing a larger plane. It goes without saying that the anvil needs to be good & solid - your steering link or whatever it is looks good. I like to set the anvil somewhere so I can sit down to the job - you are going to be at it a while, so you may as well get comfortable....

Cheers,