Thread: Challenge 2020 - 2021 Oldgreybeard

I would like to put up bass lees objection, with no intention of following through, just on the off case I’m completely put in my place.

Cheers Matt.

Bob

Sorry to hear of your family's trials and tribulations. However, you have wetted our appetite in spectacular fashion. I await tomorrow.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I would like to put up bass lees objection, with no intention of following through, just on the off case I’m completely put in my place.

Cheers Matt.

We will see when and if yours is completed

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I would like to put up bass lees objection, with no intention of following through, just on the off case I’m completely put in my place.

Cheers Matt.

Objection over-ruled!

I know all the terms (grew up watching Perry Mason.)



Regards
Paul

Sounds like you've had a rough trot Bob, I hope things improve for you soon.

As for

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

, but a handmade custom quilted “doily”.

well crikey, the rest of us may as well quit now - there's no competing with that .

Well here it is – Maureen’s plane!
PlaneCompetition.jpg

Wait its embroidery. Is the Oldgreybeard just taking the mickey out of us? You know I wouldn’t do that (well maybe just a little bit). So what is on my mind?

Back to the beginning. Last week, when Maureen gave me her latest creation, I was sitting contemplating my navel and pondering over the question of what had we achieved with the plane building challenge. (With Covid restrictions, lockdowns etc there has been plenty of time for navel gazing, contemplation and pondering for the inhabitants of Melbourne). Looking at Maureen’s plane it was obvious that it did not meet the criteria laid out for the challenge, but at the same time it raised a number of differences which as wood-workers may warrant our attention.

You see Maureen’s plane was not made using the traditional embroidery method - hand embroidery using a needle and thread and relying purely on the skill of the embroiderer. Embroidery had moved forward – her method was essentially a CNC process. Yes, there are small computerised sewing machines for embroidery which feature a platen which moves in the X and Y planes and specialised software to take the embroiderer’s design and essentially convert that into the equivalent “G code” to control the positioning of the ‘sewing head’ (think equivalent of the router head in a CNC router). Further these are desktop operations using desktop size equipment.

What has that got to do with our plane making challenge

In the beginning,Matt (Simplicity) and I envisaged that members should get more that just the satisfaction of making a plane; we expected there would be a sharing of ideas, members would offer advise on different techniques, etc and that we would hopefully learn these ‘new’ methods and improve our skills. I think we have far exceeded our expectations in this respect.
But where is the quantum shift such as experienced by the embroiderers- hand embroidery one stitch at a time to a CNC type process. You might say that you learnt a number of “new” techniques which you have been able to apply to your woodworking activities such as ‘peening dovetails’ to make the joint virtually invisible. These may be new to many of us, but they are not NEW – such techniques had been used by our fathers, their fathers and generations before them.

One advantage of ‘navel gazing’ is that the mind is free to ponder any subject without limitation. I found my self thinking of “Problems” which has been brought up by some of our participants e.g. difficulty in lining up holes on each side of the body. Many of our metalworking colleagues have the luxury of DROs on their lathes, mills drills, etc and aim for accuracy of less than 1/1000th of an inch.
Imagine having a CNC table and DRO attached to the drill press– not only would I have greater accuracy but also repeatability of that accuracy. No more problems lining up holes!

Have I sown any seeds for further examination?

Is it time to embrace some of the latest advances in technology which are enjoyed by other disciplines?

Is anyone interested in say a zoom meeting to discuss what we have achieved in this challenge and how we might move forward – or do we even want to incorporate new technology in our woodworking?

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

Three things:

Firstly, Maureen (and by association, you too) has clearly taken this challenge to a plane not previously envisaged.

Secondly, I am reminded of Edward de Bono and his concept of lateral thinking. Think outside the square perhaps

Thirdly, see what happens when we allow the girls in. (Couldn't find tongue in cheek emoji so I am having to resort to words )

Regards
Paul

PS: If we had been really smart we would have commissioned our other halves to provide such a "backdrop."

Bob,
My first thought was to sternly object, but then it occurred that I wouldn’t even listen too my self if I objected, possibly even tell my self were too go.

So there you go, our first full team effort I must say,you both have out done yourself.

Tell Maruren I’m mildly impressed [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.
Ps you beat me to the finish line, you win.[emoji6]

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Many of our metalworking colleagues have the luxury of DROs on their lathes, mills drills, etc and aim for accuracy of less than 1/1000th of an inch.
Imagine having a CNC table and DRO attached to the drill press– not only would I have greater accuracy but also repeatability of that accuracy. No more problems lining up holes!

My metal milling machine is not CNC. I have the DRO on all three axes but I have to wind the handles myself.

Yes, I have used the milling machine and the DRO accuracy when drilling holes in timber before. Of course the downside is the timber shavings in the coolant tray.

Jools was going to do an embroidered plane too but Maureen beat her to it. And yes she is still hoping to make a fully functioning plane for the challenge.

We are going away this weekend for a function with my Veterans' knife making group up in NSW and when we come back it's back into the plane making.

Bob, when you say that Maureen's plane does not meet the criteria I presume you mean that it did not take a shaving off a piece of pine. That could be corrected by programming in a couple of curly shavings and putting the doily back in the machine. Let the judges try and pick a hole in that!
With regard to a zoom discussion about the challenge and related benefits it would be good after the event is concluded.

Paul, your first point contains a plane pun so is valid and appropriate - tick.
However I think your second point is wide of the mark - the doily is approximately square but the plane is well within the boundaries - definitely no De Bono there!
If your third point means that Maureen has shown us Luddites up for what we are with her superior CNC skills then I must concur - I certainly have some catching up to do.

And as for you young Matt your claim of being only "mildly impressed" marks you as either a hard man or an utter Philistine!. Hmmmm, or maybe both

Originally Posted by labr@

And as for you young Matt your claim of being only "mildly impressed" marks you as either a hard man or an utter Philistine!. Hmmmm, or maybe both

Certainly at least one of them.

Bob, sorry to hear all has not been well, all the best to your elder sister.

As for Maureen's plane, at least it is complete, fully assembled with no visible faults... a major advance on my status of making a plane. I have a blade and a body but two haven't yet hand a Tango.

I do love the idea of a XY table + DRO on the drill press, at least it would be bolted down, might have saved the injury to my thumb on Sat!

I really should just get a new MT2-JT6 morse taper to mount a spare jacobs chuck in the mill then i could use it's DRO

Cheers
Phil

Originally Posted by Aussiephil

I do love the idea of a XY table + DRO on the drill press, at least it would be bolted down, might have saved the injury to my thumb on Sat!

I really should just get a new MT2-JT6 morse taper to mount a spare jacobs chuck in the mill then i could use it's DRO

Phil, I think you might do better with a MT3, since that is what works in my mill, which is the same model as yours.

What do you use to hold endmills? A collet setup, I assume? I use ER-32 collets on mine. I recently bought a MT4 ER-32 collet closer for the lathe too so that I can use the collets on both machines. Collets are much more secure than a Jacobs Chuck and they also have far less runout.

Even a cheap set of collets like these, which I bought recently, are more accurate than a jacobs chuck. VEVOR Precision ER32 Collet Set 45PCs Collet Chuck 2-20 mm 1/16-25/32" for CNC | eBay

The set contains 20 metric collets and 25 imperial collets and will fit any drill bit up to the the largest sized collet in the set. Yes, you can get better collets and the day I need one I will buy the better ones individually, but for now I have the whole set at better accuracy than I need for less than $3 per collet.

Although I use cheap collets I bought good quality collet closers so that when I need better collets I won't need to buy a better closer to support them.

We will also soon be starting a “Death clock” count down to June 30.
Beware -- Big brothers are watching 🤓

Aussiephil summed up the difficulty of this challenge with his prophetic words on 28th September
“Welcome on board Flight 2021 - the plane the plane

Maybe we should split into
Those that can draw and those that can't.

Then into

I've never done this before - me
I've tried and failed -
i've built a couple -
I'm a plane master, i can fly with the eagles

With less than a month to go it is probably permissable to digress a little, contemplate our navel and review where we are at.

The following “facts” are all loosely based on Matt and Bob discussing these facts, who have been know on one or two occasions to fabricate stuff to suit their own whimsical ideas (so sayth Matt)

The entrants

Aussiephil:
Chance of finishing –started with 3D printed components - still a chance to finish
banjopicks:
Chance of finishing – Our USA entrant but we have not heard from him for 7 months, but still maybe a slim chance
Bellbodyboards:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Bernard Zhang:
An interesting challenge to cut the male part of a sliding dovetail. Chance of finishing – maybe a slim
Bushmiller:
Chance of finishing -??? Finished
Chief Tiff:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
CKlett:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Doug3030:
Chance of finishing – advised last week he is committed to finish
Ironwood:
Undoubtedly the leader for the BEST PHOTOGRAPHY award (except we don’t havean award) Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Jools13:
Chance of finishing – (according to Doug3030) is committed to finishing
Labra@:
Chance of finishing – only started on 22 May but could finish in time
LanceC:
“Plane of Long Tang." Unfortunately the prophetic words of Sheets on 28/9/20 -I'm envisioning plane wrecks now seem to have come true, but there is still time -
Chance of finishing – slim
Mitch59: Only spent 4 days with us. Chance of finishing –extremely slim
MountainAsh:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Oldgreybeard:
Chance of finishing- ??? Finished –if we can count Maureen’s effort; otherwise Withdrawn by order of the stewards
Pagie:
Chance of finishing – Understood to have scratched in racing terminology
Picko:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Pittwater Pete:
An unexpected approach – a carved plane, but quickly ran out of puff. Chance of finishing unlikely to slim
Shanesmith80:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Sheets:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Simplicity:
Chance of finishing – Prepost favourite; will finish- only final pampering of “the body’ to be completed
Tony A:
Chance of finishing –??? Finished
Woodified:
Another Canadian dropped by the wayside . Chance of finishing –slim
Woodpixel:
Chance of finishing- unlikely, Still in the planning stage ?Many different and novel proposals but last post “Hmmmm..... which direction....”sums it up .

Notes:

.

??? Finished means Completed subject to judges determination that the entry meets ALL requirements of the challenge.

Chance of finishing is based on an assessment of the above facts by Bobby –the bookie [Bear in mine tho Bobby the bookie is notorious for getting his odds completely and shamefully stuffed up (Nothing to do with Infill planes) and he has been runout of betting syndicates more times than a drunk in a free house.]


11 entries are at a stage where they essentially completed and have been or could be submitted to the judges

A further 6 entries are expected to be finished for submission to the judges before the deadline of 30th June

The remaining participants need to extractum digitum if they have any chance of getting their entry to the required standard by the 30th June.



“Bobby the bookie” suggested odds for the 12 participants who have not yet ‘completed’ their challenge could be in the order off: Unfortunately he will not actually accept any wagers

Simplicity even money
Doug3030 5/2 against
Labra@ 5/1 against
Aussiephil 10/1 against
Jools13 25/1 against
Mitch59 50/1 against
Pittwater Pete 50/1 against
Banjopicks 100/1 against
Bernard Zhang 150/1 against
LanceC 150/1 against
Woodified 250.1 against
Woodpixel 500/1 against

In the words of our resident orator ( Simplicity) at his best
We are open to all digression regarding the above writing and will possibly agree with said digression, especially if we are inclined to be discussing said digression at one of our favourite dens.

The current “Completed” entries in no particular order
(Click thumbnail - members name on right of label)

I want to know what product Picko used to do the final polishing on his entry; it has truly transformed the look!

(Either that or one of the judges has entered a ringer...)