Thread: Challenge 2020 - 2021 Oldgreybeard

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.

...

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Hopefully, today I will get Matt's mitreplane blade heat treated. That's out of competition of course, but still plane-related.

I will be starting on a prototype for my competition plane soon too.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.
2. Over to the jointer flatten one side for the plane sole.
3. Use sole as reference side and plane the adjacent sides to straight and perpendicular to the sole and parallel to each other
4. mark out guide lines to rip a 12mm slice of the two sides for the cheeks
5. Use band saw to cut leaving about 1 mm over size and to plane to size
6. Repeat 1 - 5 above if necessary to hone my skills.

Note use of jointer and band saw. 2 reasons - Shoulder injury does not permit extended action as required for sawing and planing.
Also and probably more importantly, I don't have a rip saw.
That's the plan for today, so time for breakfast and then out to the shed.

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Cheers,
Bob

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 1 - Original piece of pine
Image 2 - Thru the jointer and nice and smooth
Image 3 - Not only smooth but square
Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

(Click on image for larger view)

Cheers
Bob


_DSC0127.jpg_DSC0129.jpg_DSC0128.jpg_DSC0131.jpg_DSC0130.jpg

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 1 - Original piece of pine
Image 2 - Thru the jointer and nice and smooth
Image 3 - Not only smooth but square
Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

(Click on image for larger view)

Cheers
Bob


_DSC0127.jpg_DSC0129.jpg_DSC0128.jpg_DSC0131.jpg_DSC0130.jpg

We’re are the Judges ??
Can someone please put some Red wine out, I’m sure that, will bring them in.

Bob I reckon you past yo days mission.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

We’re are the Judges ??
Can someone please put some Red wine out, I’m sure that, will bring them in.

Cheers Matt.

OOPs, Maureen & I just finished off the Father's Day red wine gift - was good too

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

In the spirit of competition and making you do it twice, that's a fail.

Unless you failed to deburr/denib the part correct, please measure it again just to be safe.



Phil rustles around in the wine fridge for a bottle of red.

Originally Posted by Aussiephil

In the spirit of competition and making you do it twice, that's a fail.

Unless you failed to deburr/denib the part correct, please measure it again just to be safe.



Phil rustles around in the wine fridge for a bottle of red.

That's mean, Phil. I will re-measure tomorrow - I'm sure If I apply a little more pressure I could get the 73.40 down to 73.36

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

That's mean, Phil. I will re-measure tomorrow - I'm sure If I apply a little more pressure I could get the 73.40 down to 73.36

It is drizzling rain here in Melbourne this morning and the forecast is for up to 50mm in the next 48 hours. So I have a question for the wise -
The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?

The first response to this thread with the correct answer will be awarded 1 brownie point to be applied by the judges in reaching their decision on the best plane of the competition (another executive decision).

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

It is drizzling rain here in Melbourne this morning and the forecast is for up to 50mm in the next 48 hours. So I have a question for the wise -
The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?

The first response to this thread with the correct answer will be awarded 1 brownie point to be applied by the judges in reaching their decision on the best plane of the competition (another executive decision).

Four microns in expansion?

Metal is more stable, just saying!

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.

Bob, seriously, I think it matters very little. It's a piece of old pallet wood, and the photos show that the billet contains the pith of the tree. It's not the best thing to use to check sawing, planing and straightening skills on.

I know its a trial run but I can see it causing you nothing but frustration if you proceed with that billet.

By now I suspect that you have all figured out that I am planning a size 4 or5 Jack plane with a laminated wood body. I am now concentrating my thoughts on the blade. I envisage a 50mm x 5 or 6 mm blade with no chip breaker. The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

• < 20^o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
• 45^o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
• 50^o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.

2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?

• Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30^o.
• Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30^o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27^o be appropriate for the secondary bevel

I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

Any advice is desperately needed.
Thanks

Bob

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

By now I suspect that you have all figured out that I am planning a size 4 or5 Jack plane with a laminated wood body. I am now concentrating my thoughts on the blade. I envisage a 50mm x 5 or 6 mm blade with no chip breaker. The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

• < 20^o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
• 45^o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
• 50^o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.

2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?

• Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30^o.
• Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30^o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27^o be appropriate for the secondary bevel

I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

Any advice is desperately needed.
Thanks

Bob

Bob,
The 01 Tool steel I have for you is only 38 mm wide 6 mm thickness!!

Considering you want to plane some real woods, not the other softy stuff, that mere mortals use,I would go for A York pitch bevel down(bevel down mouths are bigger and easier to file).
But this is just my humble opinion I’m .

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

That cuts out the <20 degrees option.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

• < 20^o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
• 45^o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
• 50^o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.

2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?

• Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30^o.
• Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30^o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27^o be appropriate for the secondary bevel

With <20 degrees ruled out that means a bevel down plane. That means the bevel angle becomes less critical as the bed angle will be what determines the the angle at which the blade contacts the timber. You then need to look at clearance angle, and edge durability, 25-30 is a good range. Your secondary bevel would begreater than your rimary,not less.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

That points towards a higher bed angle (York Pitch)

Your own wishlist points to a 50 degree bevel down plane with a 25 to 30 degree primary bevel and a small (optional) secondary bevel.

Hint: Get the blade made up and build the plane around it. Much easier than building the plane and trying to make a blade to fit it. This is particularly important when you are relying on third party assistance to help make the blade.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Bob,
The 01 Tool steel I have for you is only 38 mm wide 6 mm thickness!!

Cheers Matt.

That's no problem as I propose to design the the body to suit the iron. As you can see from my questions, I'm still some way off that point.

Cheers
Bob

Hi Bob. My first "woodie" was Jack sized and has a bed angle of 45°. A lot of it's work has been prepping one flat surface on Messmate (old recycled rafters) so I can run the boards through a thicknesser (I don't own a jointer). The blade is the old tapered style, "Made in Sheffield".