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  1. #91
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Bob,

    Is this (In the red circle) your cross pin, for your wedge?
    If so I reckon you might want to move that up and too the left a bit.
    Looks like it’s right on the lower right edge?


    Cheers Matt.
    Hi Matt,
    I think you may be confusing the dimension lines with a square piece to which the pin is attached. Hopefully deleting the offending dimension lines will make it clearer
    PlaneDetail1.jpg
    Bob

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  3. #92
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    Dec 2013
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    Mt Waverley Vic 3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Awww, I started at the top of this page, saw the old Roman-era plane & got all excited! I had visions of Bob chasing an elephant & ripping out one of its tusks....

    But it looks like you've dropped that idea? Maybe just as well, 'cos you're getting a bit past wrestling with elephants, & anyway, you'd have to build yourself a new low bench to use it on - apparently the Romans used very low benches compared with our modern benches.

    If anyone is interested, a bloke in Britain has started a bit of a career in making replicas of very old planes. He kicked off with the "Silchester plane" back in 2014, and has gone on to make quite a few other replicas, including a copy of a plane found in the "Mary Rose", Henry VIII's flag ship that made a wrong turn & went head over turkey in the Solent in 1545.

    I've had a few moments where I've considered having a go at one myself, just for curiosity's sake, but fortunately, such moments have all passed quickly & safely. Got enough on my plate with "modern" planes atm. Maybe in a few more decades I'll find the time.....

    Cheers,
    You may be right about being a bit past wrestling with elephants, but I haven't completely given up on the idea of building a Roman-era plane. Can one obtain a piece of Ivory for such a purpose? Must get my BIL to check with the museums (he is engineer at Science Works). May be if the finished item was to be donated to a museum - would that make it possible?

    Cheers,
    Bob

  4. #93
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    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    74
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    I think you answered your own question.

    They do make synthetic 'ivory' for piano keys, but no idea if you could get it in lumps of the size on that Roman plane.

    There is an "ivory wood", though you might need to sell a kidney to get enough...

    P'raps your best bet would be a bit of "Yellow Walnut" (now called Beilschmiedia bancroftii, not Cryptocarya as on the page linked to), which among many common names is called "Ivory Walnut"....

    Grows as far south as Mission Beech according to Morris Lake, so you can drive up & find a tree after they let you Victorians back into the Sunshine State (where it's currently raining, with gusty winds & 20 degrees! )

    Just trying to counter any potential excuses.....
    IW

  5. #94
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    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Africa
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    818

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard View Post
    Can one obtain a piece of Ivory for such a purpose?
    Genuine ivory is really difficult to get hold of, your best is probably mammoth ivory (iirc from Siberia), or imitation. There are some pretty good fakes out there, apparently this stuff is quite good (I haven’t used it myself, but saved the link based on some guy on the internet’s recommendation). It’s not cheap though, and of course there’s the shipping. And convincing customs that it isn’t in fact ivory.

    Resin-Ivory™ R Grade Bagpipe Fitting Stock

  6. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    Default Challenge Piece - Mockup

    Made use of the old Pallet billets and screwed together the body & rear cheek,set Iron, wedge and wedge pin into position and hot glued the tote into position.

    MockUp.jpg
    A couple of problems are evident.

    Wedge needs thinning down and reshaping to provide more room for chip removal.

    Originally, I cut the angle for the front middle section of the body to 30 degrees but that just didn't look right, so I re-cut it to 60%. I am happier with the look, but think it would be more functional if I cut a radius instead of the straight line slope. (see red outline - note I have told you I can't draw).

    I reduced the size of the tote to a height of 100mm. I will roughly rasp to roundish shape and check that it is still big enough for my hand and comfortable to hold. I haven't turned a ball for the front grip yet, i will wait until I am satisfied with the tote and then size the ball appropriately and reduce the lenght of the forward section to provide a better visual balance.

    Comments and recommendations are always appreciated.

    Cheers
    Bob

  7. #96
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Millmerran,QLD
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    Bob

    It is good to see the mock up and I will be at least partially going down that path.

    I think you do need more room for shaving removal/clearance. although exactly how much is the big question. Will you be using a wooden dowel to secure the wedge in the final version? If so I am concerned that the size (I am assuming 10mm or 12mm) and shape will tend to be a barrier for shavings too resulting in clogging. I realise you may have gone to that size for strength. An alternative may be some refinement of the dowel shape admittedly at the possible expense of strength or go to a brass/steel pin. In metal 6mm would be ample. Just a thought. Steel in particular could be salvaged from something lying around probably

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,051

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard View Post
    Made use of the old Pallet billets and screwed together the body & rear cheek,set Iron, wedge and wedge pin into position and hot glued the tote into position.

    MockUp.jpg
    A couple of problems are evident.

    Wedge needs thinning down and reshaping to provide more room for chip removal.

    Originally, I cut the angle for the front middle section of the body to 30 degrees but that just didn't look right, so I re-cut it to 60%. I am happier with the look, but think it would be more functional if I cut a radius instead of the straight line slope. (see red outline - note I have told you I can't draw).

    I reduced the size of the tote to a height of 100mm. I will roughly rasp to roundish shape and check that it is still big enough for my hand and comfortable to hold. I haven't turned a ball for the front grip yet, i will wait until I am satisfied with the tote and then size the ball appropriately and reduce the lenght of the forward section to provide a better visual balance.

    Comments and recommendations are always appreciated.

    Cheers
    Bob
    Bob,
    A mock up is a good thing.

    Agreed a radius might give the chips a easier ejection!!.

    Cheers Matt.

  9. #98
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Dandenong Ranges
    Posts
    560

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    Hi Bob and Paul. I have made a couple of woodies with a 12mm dowel in about the same spot and they work okay. Shavings don't curl out the front like a cast iron plane but seem to get far enough away from the mouth. I have used chip breakers though and this would create a slightly different geometry.

  10. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Dandenong Ranges
    Posts
    560

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    Just saw Matt's post. Your billet height is lower than mine and this would help with shaving ejection.

  11. #100
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    Dec 2013
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    Mt Waverley Vic 3149
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    The mock up height is 40mm but the Mahogany has not been ripped to final height yet so I can go to 50mm. I'm in 2 minds as to which way to go - I would appreciate members comments on their experiences.

    Cheers
    Bob

  12. #101
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    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    Plus one for mock-ups, I strongly recommend making one for any prototype.

    And ditto for radiusing the front of the escapement. I did that on the second infill I made rather than cut a straight slope on the front bun as Norris et al did. I am sufficiently convinced that it improved shaving ejection that I've made it a feature of every plane I've made since. My first infill has a high-angle blade (55*), and it was a terrible clogger to start with. The front bun was glued & pinned in place, so I couldn't do much about the shape of the back of it - would've been a very tedious job to try & re-shape it in situ! But I figured the lever cap was also contributing to the problem, since it had a very blunt nose that filled-in a god deal of the lower escapement area. It was easier to do something about that, I took it out & re-shaped it to get rid of its bulbous nose, which greatly eased the problem. It still tends to clog a bit on some woods, but I've just accepted that shaving ejection is not one of the strong points of high-angle blades & gotten used to flicking out shavings with a finger when they refuse to leave.

    IIRC, Krenov shaped his cross-pins into a triangular shape (in cross-section), leaving well-rounded corners. I assume that was to reduce obstruction. You'd probably get away with an 8mm dowel for a cross-pin if you ease the centre of the wedge so that the main pressure points from the pin are on the edges of the wedge. This will ensure the shearing forces on the pin are close to the walls, where they can best resist them.

    Another tip for wedges where the top pressure is applied at a single point (like the thumbscrew of the "lever-wedges" on some of my planes), or a narrow strip from a cross-pin, is to scrape or rasp out a slight concavity on the blade side of your wedge so the pin 'springs' the wedge and applies pressure at two narrow strips, one right at the toe, and one above the pin. wedge.jpg

    I had trouble getting my first wedged/crosspin style plane blade to hold firmly 'til that particular penny dropped...

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    IW

  13. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    47

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Plus one for mock-ups, I strongly recommend making one for any prototype.

    Another tip for wedges where the top pressure is applied at a single point (like the thumbscrew of the "lever-wedges" on some of my planes), or a narrow strip from a cross-pin, is to scrape or rasp out a slight concavity on the blade side of your wedge so the pin 'springs' the wedge and applies pressure at two narrow strips, one right at the toe, and one above the pin. wedge.jpg

    I had trouble getting my first wedged/crosspin style plane blade to hold firmly 'til that particular penny dropped...

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    Good tip, thanks IW

  14. #103
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    Dec 2013
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    Thanks guys for all the comments and tips. I will venture out to the shed tomorrow and try out the following adjustments to the mock up (see my post #95).


    1. Radius the front of the escarpment to provide about 5-6mm extra depth in-front of the wedge and iron.
    2. Reduce the thickness of the wedge where it contacts the pin from12 -15mm to 10 - 12mm.
    3. Reduce the diameter of the pin from 12mm to 9mm
    4. Rasp out a slight concavity on the blade side of your wedge so the pin 'springs' the wedge (as per Ian's attachment #482876)
    5. Round the edges on the tote and hot glue it to the body of the plane so I can check the fell and balance - I am still not sure about the overall height of the tote being 100mm, but any higher could look out of place and/ or impact on the balance.
    6. Any thought / comments on incorporating the thumb / finger hold concept from the Ancient Roman Plane in lieu of the tote and a front knob? (see my post #76)



    Modifications 1,2, and 3 above should give at least an additional 6 - 8mm of clearance for chip escapement. I think this should be sufficient without having to provide any relief in the cheeks to poke my fingers in for manual chip removal - time will tell.

    The O1 Blade is being posted tomorrow to Doug3030 who has agreed to assist with heat treating and tempering.

    Cheers
    Bob

  15. #104
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Not far enough away from Melbourne
    Posts
    3,637

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard View Post
    The O1 Blade is being posted tomorrow to Doug3030 who has agreed to assist with heat treating and tempering.
    Bob, the blade arrived today. About 8 days is not bad in Melbourne these days.

    I hope to have it in the post on its way back before the weekend.

  16. #105
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    Dec 2013
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    Thanks Doug, looking forward to receiving it and getting back to the challenge. Haven't done anything in the past week - Neck & Shoulder playing up again

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