Thread: Challenge 2020 - 2021 Simplicity

Originally Posted by IanW

Matt, given that's a side-grain to side-grain joint, and as long as it's a reasonably neat fit, I don't think you need to do other than just glue it. The metal dowel will give you some extra shear strength, perhaps, but I doubt it's really needed. I'd use an epoxy glue, which has a bit more tensile strength than aliphatic glues, & particularly if there is any uneveness in the mating surfaces (epoxy is a better "gap filler"), but otherwise nothing more drastic than that should be necessary.

When I was making my second panel plane, I tossed-up between she-oak & Solomon Is. ebony for the stuffing. The she-oak piece was big enough to get the front bun out of as a single piece, but the SIE had to be joined to get enough 6b Buns cf.jpg

I decided to risk a glue-up & go with the SIE. I did consider screwing he pieces together from below, but decided that could create more problems than it solved - metal fasteners don't expand & contract with the seasonal movements of wood, and are a frequent source of split glue-lines, in my experience. Anyway 18 months down the track & many good work-outs & it's still sound.

I'll leave it to you to figure out where the join is.....
Cheers,

Not sure if we were looking at the same thing. In Matt's plane he is going to glue the top of the front infill onto a metal plane. So there is no wood to wood joint.

Although I also agree with Matt that modern glues should be probably be enough. If he wants to improve I would drill little indents into the metal at the glue surfaces. That way the epoxy has also something more to form a mechanical connection.



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Originally Posted by IanW

Matt, given that's a side-grain to side-grain joint, and as long as it's a reasonably neat fit, I don't think you need to do other than just glue it. The metal dowel will give you some extra shear strength, perhaps, but I doubt it's really needed. I'd use an epoxy glue, which has a bit more tensile strength than aliphatic glues, & particularly if there is any uneveness in the mating surfaces (epoxy is a better "gap filler"), but otherwise nothing more drastic than that should be necessary.

When I was making my second panel plane, I tossed-up between she-oak & Solomon Is. ebony for the stuffing. The she-oak piece was big enough to get the front bun out of as a single piece, but the SIE had to be joined to get enough 6b Buns cf.jpg

I decided to risk a glue-up & go with the SIE. I did consider screwing he pieces together from below, but decided that could create more problems than it solved - metal fasteners don't expand & contract with the seasonal movements of wood, and are a frequent source of split glue-lines, in my experience. Anyway 18 months down the track & many good work-outs & it's still sound.

I'll leave it to you to figure out where the join is.....
Cheers,

Ian,
After considerable consideration (about that long).
I wholeheartedly agree with you, I personally know I have a perpetual habit of over engineering every thing.
In reality the glue mating surfaces will be as good as an weekend warrior hack would achieve.

In reality a 3 mm pin(aka nail) would still be massive overkill, considering it’s working in contain shear mode.

Cheers Matt.
Nice looking stuffings by the way [emoji6].




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Originally Posted by Cklett

Not sure if we were looking at the same thing. In Matt's plane he is going to glue the top of the front infill onto a metal plane. So there is no wood to wood joint....

Well, one or the other of us has misinterpreted, Ck.
I understood that Matt is glueing a top piece to another piece of wood, with a locating dowel (of metal) in between. One of the front buns I showed above is also made from two pieces glued together, in my case sans dowels, just a wood to wood joint...

It wouldn't be the first time in my life I got the message mixed.....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, one or the other of us has misinterpreted, Ck.
I understood that Matt is glueing a top piece to another piece of wood, with a locating dowel (of metal) in between. One of the front buns I showed above is also made from two pieces glued together, in my case sans dowels, just a wood to wood joint...

It wouldn't be the first time in my life I got the message mixed.....

Cheers,

Sorry Ian,

Cklett, is right

.
Picture tells a thousand words.
Have another Glass of Red, it’s on me.[emoji6]

Cheers Matt.

0 out of 10 for observation!

Or maybe I just need to bring forward my next optometrist appointment......


OK, getting serious, that does change the equation a bit. I have had varying success glueing wood to metal. Most times they stick & stay stuck forever, but occasionally I've had joints fail for no reason I can fathom. Based on such experiences I suspect I would be taking the belt & braces approach & adding a couple of 12G screws from the bottom. It will be easier to take out an insurance policy now, before you pin the lower half in, and would give you more peace of mind. One would hope "the body" is going to outlast that of the maker, so you don't want someone casting aspersions on your workmanship 50 years from now, do you?......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

0 out of 10 for observation!

Or maybe I just need to bring forward my next optometrist appointment......


OK, getting serious, that does change the equation a bit. I have had varying success glueing wood to metal. Most times they stick & stay stuck forever, but occasionally I've had joints fail for no reason I can fathom. Based on such experiences I suspect I would be taking the belt & braces approach & adding a couple of 12G screws from the bottom. It will be easier to take out an insurance policy now, before you pin the lower half in, and would give you more peace of mind. One would hope "the body" is going to outlast that of the maker, so you don't want someone casting aspersions on your workmanship 50 years from now, do you?......

Cheers,

Ian, I'd blame it on all the bling Matt has put on her. It is so shiny that it's hard to see anything [emoji12]

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Well I didn’t sleep well last night(actually that’s a lie)I did but anyway.

I have a made a bit of a whoopsie, I was wet sanding the metal infill piece, without thinking about my actions.

I can remove the steel plate from the infill if I have too, it’s only stuck down with a few drops of super glue, heat will realise the bond.
An then sand the pieces more individual.
But is there a simpler way to remove the staining from the Forest Red gum , acetone, metho ??.

Cheers Matt.

Hey Matt,

Just call it a dark tan and be done

Looking frigging awesome

cheers
Phil

Matt

That is the tannins bleeding through and raised by the water. I don't know how to resolve it. If nobody else knows a solution I will experiment with some of my timber, but I am not hopeful. If you have another piece I would use that.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Matt

That is the tannins bleeding through and raised by the water. I don't know how to resolve it. If nobody else knows a solution I will experiment with some of my timber, but I am not hopeful. If you have another piece I would use that.

Regards
Paul

Paul,

No it’s not the tannins bleeding through, it’s the metal Swarf mixed with water, it’s the waste from wet rubbing the steel.
Same stuff you get when using a water stone.

Cheers Matt.

Matt

I see the same effect when some timbers just get wet. However, the swarf may well add to the problem. It may be that it can be sanded off as it may not have penetrated the timber very far (previously I was thinking that the tannins had risen up through the timber) , but even if that is successful the block will now be too narrow to sit well in the body.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

.......I see the same effect when some timbers just get wet. However, the swarf may well add to the problem.....

Paul, I think what Matt has there is a classic tannin-iron reaction. It's one of the reasons we are advised not to use steel wool on woods high in tannins (& most of our eucalypts are!). Unless you are very, very careful to clean out every last skerrick of wool fibre, the tannins & moisture from the air will react with the iron & can cause nasty blotches.

Matt, I suspect you'll find the effect has gone pretty deep and will take a lot of sanding to remove. That'll reduce the width of the bun, but you've cleverly anticipated the problem by using those filler pieces between bun & sides so it'll be easier to re-make a couple of slightly thicker side pieces than a whole new bun. Only a minor disaster.

If you hadn't already slathered finish on the other wood, you could've fixed the problem by ebonising the lot. Soak some steel wool in vinegar 'til most dissolves, then pour the filtered liquid on the wood & your plane will look like it's stuffed with ebony. Only the most expensive infills got ebony.....

And if you get the vinegar solution on your nicely-polished steel, you will create your problem in reverse....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

P
Matt, I suspect you'll find the effect has gone pretty deep and will take a lot of sanding to remove. That'll reduce the width of the bun, but you've cleverly anticipated the problem by using those filler pieces between bun & sides so it'll be easier to re-make a couple of slightly thicker side pieces than a whole new bun. Only a minor disaster.

Ian

I had forgotten those side pieces: If you say nothing about that, I will never mention again the piece of steel to which the knob is glued. In fact I can already no longer remember what this discussion is about .

Regards
Paul

Well disaster averted,
Sanded one side of the Forest red Gum with some 320 Wet an Dry, dry this time no water involved.

So once I was satisfied the staining would “easily” sand out, an I didn’t need to reach for a bit of 36 Grit paper.

An I did not need to cheat like someone suggested [emoji6][emoji6].

I rapped the rest of the Forest red Gum in masking tape, then proceeded to sand the Steel till 5000 grit wet, then polished it with a loose flap cotton wheel with some white polish bar.
It’s shiny with a few tiny little defects, a lot like it’s maker.

Finally removed the masking tape, taped up the steel, sanded the rest of the timber.
And finally a Acetone bath.



Cheers Matt.