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  1. #1
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    Default PLANE CHALLENGE 2020 - 2021 - Judges corner

    After lengthy discussions (mostly serious ), between the organisers and the eminent panel of appointed judges, we have established the judging criteria.

    The winner will be the person who achieves the highest aggregate score in the following categories:
    1. Degree of complexity (C) (1- 5)
    2. Workmanship (W) (1- 5)
    3. Design/Innovation (D) (1 - 5)
    4. Result (R) (0 - 5)

    The final score will be the average of all 3 judges scores for C(W+D+R) i.e., all 3 judges must agree on the score for C for each entry but their individual scores for W, D and R may vary.
    The overall challenge winner, apart from bragging rights, will receive a token trophy, something akin to the highly prized urn that holds “The Ashes”, which will be so prized by the winner, it'll be mentioned prominently in his/her will.

    When you have finished your plane and are happy it’s ready for judging, sum up your build experience in no more than 200 words, concentrating on such aspects as any special technique(s) required, major problems overcome, and perhaps what inspired your design/project if applicable (simply wanting to make a plane is perfectly acceptable!)
    POST this description, along with a maximum of 10 photos in the thread which will be headed “Done & ready for judging” or something similar. This thread will be attached as a “sticky” so it remains near the top of this page & easy to find. You need not rush to post the finished item, if you complete your plane in plenty of time, you can live with it a while and make minor tweaks until you feel you have it as good as it can be, but don’t forget to post the final version by the due date.

    OK, so now you all know what you are doing.

    But wait, there’s more!
    In order to spice things up a little, and perhaps entice a few more lurkers who are still fence-sitting to ‘avago’, we have decided to offer a prize. We will still be choosing a ‘serious’ winner, but given the wide range of skills & experience being brought to the competition, we thought it would be most fair if everyone was in with a chance, so the winner of the prize will be decided by lottery. The conditions for going in the draw will be the same as for The Challenge, you must register by starting a thread, make a reasonable effort to document the build, and post the result in the “Done” thread.
    The prize is a set of layout tools (cutting & pin marking gauge, scribing knife and re-calibratabe square all in Olive wood & brass as shown: Olive wood layout set.jpg

    If you have any questions of the judges or organisers, please ask them in this thread; we will try to answer them here provided they are of a general nature and do not confer any advantage on any particular person. Any answers or advice given will be visible to all – PMs will not be responded to!

    OK, that’s the “serious” business, now back to the fun part….

    Cheers,
    IW

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    I just want to say, how honoured I am to have three of the nicest gentlemen this forum has ever had the privilege of having to judge my humble plane.
    I sincerely wish all of them a long life, there tools are always sharp , there glass never empty.
    There stash of timber always full.


    Long live the Judges.
    Your most humble servant,

    Cheers Matt.

  4. #3
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    Default

    I think the section that has the three addresses for the delivery of red wine is missing from my version of this thead. Could you please supply the same? (Preferably by PM to maintain discretion and utmost secrecy.)



    Regards
    Paul

    PS: I note wth some distress that sycophancy is alive and well in the Victorian capital. Fortunately I just know it will fall on deaf ears.
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    I think the section that has the three addresses for the delivery of red wine is missing from my version of this thead. Could you please supply the same? (Preferably by PM to maintain discretion and utmost secrecy.)



    Regards
    Paul

    PS: I note wth some distress that sycophancy is alive and well in the Victorian capital. Fortunately I just know it will fall on deaf ears.
    I’ve taken care of the judge’s needs regarding “beverages” Paul.
    No need to go there, just move along.

    Cheers Matt.

  6. #5
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    May 2010
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    Default

    Well, now that I know that at least one of the judges has a thing for Olive wood, I might have to dig a bit deeper into the timber vault.

    There's some Olive in there somewhere About 10 trunks of it I think from memory

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    I’ve taken care of the judge’s needs regarding “beverages” Paul.
    No need to go there, just move along.

    Cheers Matt.
    Oh.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    Well, now that I know that at least one of the judges has a thing for Olive wood, I might have to dig a bit deeper into the timber vault.

    There's some Olive in there somewhere About 10 trunks of it I think from memory
    The proverbial olive branch?



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    NSW
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    Default

    Ooh, they're nice. Happy I'm off the fence.

  10. #9
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    Nov 2007
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    Lawrencetown, NS, Canada
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    Default

    If one of the criteria is "complexity", looks like Simplicity gets eliminated straight away. I'd protest that, Matt - (should also be "degree of simplicity" - that would help me out, too). And then there's "Workmanship" - might be contsrued as Gender bias (blatant use of curves not withstanding)?

    Just trying to level the planing field . (Should also be marks for best/most puns. Let's face it; with six months to go, we might as well get credit for it ).

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheets View Post
    If one of the criteria is "complexity", looks like Simplicity gets eliminated straight away. I'd protest that, Matt - (should also be "degree of simplicity" - that would help me out, too). And then there's "Workmanship" - might be contsrued as Gender bias (blatant use of curves not withstanding)?

    Just trying to level the planing field . (Should also be marks for best/most puns. Let's face it; with six months to go, we might as well get credit for it ).
    Sheets,
    There bloody good points,
    If I’m being looked at or my plane in a way that discredits me just because of my “name”
    That’s wrong !!!!

    I’m going to look into a Royal commission on this.
    Heads will roll,

    Cheers Matt.

  12. #11
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    Perhaps a 5th category (or maybe 6th, after the "Best use of a pun") could be ingenuity. Those of us still in lockdown face extra challenges when it comes to sourcing materials (although some may protest that we have extra time available to offset this)

  13. #12
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    Default Please keep this thread clear for genuine business!

    Hey folks, I hate sounding like a wet blanket, but please ease off on the general chatter in this thread. While the spirit of levity & camaraderie the challenge has generated is great to see, this thread is meant for the reasonably serious business. There may be some genuine questions that need to be asked, and it will all get lost in the general clamour if this keeps up......

    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    Perhaps a 5th category (or maybe 6th, after the "Best use of a pun") could be ingenuity. Those of us still in lockdown face extra challenges when it comes to sourcing materials (although some may protest that we have extra time available to offset this)
    I think item 3 covers that, M.A, ("innovation").

    Fletty came up with the judging criteria, and personally, I think he done good - they should help level the playing field a little. With any challenge like this there is going to be widely differing levels of skill & experience and access to machinery, which is going to make judging a very tricky affair.

    I'm sure being named as a "winner" will bring a warm glow to someone, but the main purpose is to get as many people as possible having a crack at making a plane. Those like yourself who've already been there know what satisfaction making a good working tool brings, but that there's also some anxious moments and frequently, minor disasters to be negotiated along the way. The idea of the draw prize is to help keep spirits up so you'll all press on to the finish....

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #14
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    Complexity - a complex issue.

    I note that complexity is a multiplier for the calculation of the overall result.

    Than means that it is going to play a very large role in the rankings of the entries. Therefore I feel it would be nice if we could get some sort of an idea as to how the judges see "complexity".

    Would a plane with a lot of adjustable parts be deemed more complex than a pair of planes designed to make matching profiles, but are not adjustable but get their "complexity" from the high degree of accuracy required to make two complementary profiles on the workpieces? Would a Japanese plane consisting of only a body, blade and wedge but needing the bed and blade to meet with microscopic precision at a precise angle be considered complex despite it's simple appearance?

    Would the complexity of the finished plane be assessed in isolation or would the tools available to the maker help determine the score? To cite an extreme example, Terry Gordon, in his workplace with all his precision jigs, fixtures and methods of work would probably find it simpler to make his most complex moving fillister plane than I would find it to make Paul Sellers poor mans rebate plane which uses a chisel as a blade.

    My thoughts on the matter are that I can see that this would encourage people to push their limits to step up past the simpler plane builds. However, putting that much emphasis on complexity may also discourage people from making a couple of simpler planes to build some skills before working up to the more complex.

    Lets do the maths:

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    The winner will be the person who achieves the highest aggregate score in the following categories:
    1. Degree of complexity (C) (1- 5)
    2. Workmanship (W) (1- 5)
    3. Design/Innovation (D) (1 - 5)
    4. Result (R) (0 - 5)
    The final score will be the average of all 3 judges scores for C(W+D+R)
    - simple plane (C=1) with perfect scores for al 3 other attributes - 1 x (5+5+5) = 15
    - complex plane (C=5) but minimal in all other aspects - 5 x (1+1+1) = 15

    The most perfectly executed simple plane maxes out at 15 points and therefore cannot possibly outscore the poorly made badly designed complex plane which will score a minimum of 15 points so long as it can at least mark the wood, thereby avoiding a zero score for Result.

    I know it looks good on paper to reduce the judging process to a mathematical equation but I can see this taking the competition in directions it was not intended to.

    For my 2c worth, I would rather see a judging table of functional, well-made and designed planes made up to the complexity that the maker is able to stretch to reach rather than a lot of overly complex planes poorly made and designed because the makers were driven by the competition parameters to stretch beyond their limits before they have developed and consolidated their skills.

    If the current judging model is the one we finish up using then a lot of care will have to be taken in assigning the scores for "complexity" more so than anything else.

  16. #15
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    The criteria for the judging has been discussed and accepted by the judging panel , Matt and myself. We will monitor the situation on a regular basis but it is not a question of
    If the current judging model is the one we finish up using
    This is the criteria which has been adopted.

    If you have suggestions by all means raise them through your thread - I read all updates to everyone's thread each day and will ensure that your suggestions are considered. But please do not use this thread for other than posting your submissions to the challenge as Ian has outlined. This thread is to help them do the job we have asked of them.

    Thank you
    Bob

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