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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Matt

    As the plane was in use at a brewery, where they tend to have barrels, I think that tool would be a Coopers plane, which is designed to be used in a fixed position, upside down and at an angle. The work is moved, not the plane.

    Regards
    Paul
    Yes exactly, but in normal circumstances I would agree 100 percent Paul.

    But this one, and I only got the few pictures [emoji3064], has two knobs sticking out from the top, one you can see just behind the blade, there was another one, you will have to trust me on this about 200 mm from the front(Toe).
    So either it was meant to be used by two people, or the knobs were added latter.???????

    My gut feeling is this was a two person plane used to make LARGE staves for really big barrels.!!


    Cheers Matt.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Yes exactly, but in normal circumstances I would agree 100 percent Paul.

    But this one, and I only got the few pictures [emoji3064], has two knobs sticking out from the top, one you can see just behind the blade, there was another one, you will have to trust me on this about 200 mm from the front(Toe).
    So either it was meant to be used by two people, or the knobs were added latter.???????

    My gut feeling is this was a two person plane used to make LARGE staves for really big barrels.!!


    Cheers Matt.
    Matt

    I stress that I am guessing much of this reply, but most Cooper's jointers had a hole at the toe. I believe the reason for this was they had to be anchored to a bench or support and the hole allowed a peg to be inserted.

    What is more of a mystery is the peg behind the blade. Maybe this plane was mounted horizontally on trestles or sawhorses and there was one peg in each. While there were two man crosscut saws and we know they worked well, providing you were fit and strong, I am trying to imagine two people operating a plane. I think there would be a "blue" inside of ten minutes!

    What do you think?

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Matt

    I stress that I am guessing much of this reply, but most Cooper's jointers had a hole at the toe. I believe the reason for this was they had to be anchored to a bench or support and the hole allowed a peg to be inserted.

    What is more of a mystery is the peg behind the blade. Maybe this plane was mounted horizontally on trestles or sawhorses and there was one peg in each. While there were two man crosscut saws and we know they worked well, providing you were fit and strong, I am trying to imagine two people operating a plane. I think there would be a "blue" inside of ten minutes!

    What do you think?

    Regards
    Paul
    Um Iím guessing too[emoji6]

    But large staves on large barrels would just not be possibly to handle or plane buy just one person,
    Of course the sensible reason that starve were done the opposite way to bench work, could be that they figured out Gravity before it became popular, buy having the plane upside down there would never be any issues with having to manually clean the mouth of shavings, thus improving productivity meaning you can get to the pub quicker.
    It really does make sense.

    Cheers Matt.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ...... I am trying to imagine two people operating a plane. I think there would be a "blue" inside of ten minutes!......
    Well, these blokes managed it for most of a day without any bloodshed, or any harsh words as far as I could tell. If they were abusing each other they kept smiling whilst they did it. It looked a bit risky to me, the plane was whizzing back & forth with each stroke ending rather too close to certain sensitive bits of anatomy for comfort:
    Armstrong thickness planer.jpg

    IW

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Well, these blokes managed it for most of a day without any bloodshed, or any harsh words as far as I could tell. If they were abusing each other they kept smiling whilst they did it. It looked a bit risky to me, the plane was whizzing back & forth with each stroke ending rather too close to certain sensitive bits of anatomy for comfort:
    Armstrong thickness planer.jpg

    Ian,
    You answered your own question, they both worked well in harmony, because both have the same risks associated with the ďsensitive bitsĒ
    Itís kind of a win win [emoji6]

    Cheers Matt.

  7. #126
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    Default Using "exotic" metals for plane making..

    I thought this would slot in here better than in 'Hand tools unpowered'. I'd like to see all the plane-making threads put in this section eventually, but it would be a biggish job.

    Anyway, certain ďfriendsĒ seem determined to place temptation in my way & someone who Iíll not name (he can out himself if he wishes ) dropped by one afternoon a few months back, with an armful of rescued stainless steel plate. There were several thicknesses, 3.2mm, 5mm & 8mm. The 3.2mm is, I think, regular garden-variety 304 and I used a bit for the sole of a mini infill (western rosewood (Acacia rhodoxylon) infill):
    W_rosewood b.jpg

    There is nothing much to say about the 3.2mm steel, it cut & peened easily enough, I didnít find it much different from the mild steel I generally use. So far so good.

    The other pieces were covered in a scale which cleans off easily enough, leaving a surface covered in very shallow pits which take a bit more elbow-grease to sand out, but come out eventually. I think my benefactor said they had been used where they were exposed to heat & steam for a long time. SS.jpg

    I cut a little piece off & beat the heck out of it & it seemed to cold-work ok, it spread out to more than twice its original width without any sign of cracking. It seemed much the same as the thin plate. I decided to make a smallish plane that would be quick & straightforward, & I had in mind something like this small rear-bun smoother I made a couple of years ago. This plane has the cute factor, but Iíve found it a really useful size & wonder how I ever got along without it: 2 Nose fixed.jpg

    Long story short, the thick plate turned out to be something a bit more challenging than the 3.2mm stuff. Whether it was just the added thickness, or a slightly different alloy, it was definitely less easy to work with. I didnít do any WIP shots, youíve seen enough of those, and photos wouldnít show my problems anyway. I demolished a hacksaw blade, several files and many more jewellers saw blades on this one small plane, much more than I expected. Starting with a new blade or file, it felt much the same as sawing or filing mild steel, but very quickly, I could feel things going downhill. I can normally saw at least 70mm in 5mm mild steel with a good quality jewellers saw blade before it becomes dull & slows down, but I found the blades giving up the ghost in less than half that distance on the SS. Cutting out the dovetail sockets & filing the mouth & blade bevel took me much longer than I expected & I used up at least twice as many blades as I would have on mild steel. One of the files I was using was about half worn out at the start, itís totally worn now!

    Eventually I got the sides & soles ready for peening, & again, soon noticed a difference, I had to hit harder to get the metal to move, and strike it many more times. Both increase my risk of mis-hits & I had several big ones Ė leaving a couple of dings that I canít file/sand out without removing an excessive amount of metal.

    At least the infilling step went without any problems. I used the last sizable chunk of some really nice, fine-grained Victorian Bull-oak Iíd got about 30 years ago. When polished, it takes on a lovely deep lustre & feels silky in the hand like good traditional rosewood. Bull oak infill.jpg

    Lapping the sole gave me another major workout Ė Iíve never before seen the flat area creep so slowly across a sole! Sole & mouth.jpg

    Itís not quite there, yet, but I got it good enough for a trial run this afternoon: Bull oak 170mm.jpg

    I made the blade from a piece of 1/8 x 1.5Ē 1080 steel I bought here. Some may remember I had some fun trying to heat-treat plane blades, but managed to get a couple to cooperate The blade Iím putting in this plane is actually the first one I made, which refused to harden in sump oil, so I quenched it in brine, which certainly got it hard - I think it needs more tempering yet to get it to what it should be. Those several heating & cooling cycles may be why the blade cupped a tiny bit, which is giving me a bad case of RSI trying to flatten. It is only a fraction of a thou high in the centre, but it takes an awful lot of hand lapping! I got it almost to the edges & decided it was close enough for the trial run: Iron lapping.jpg

    It needs some work on the Ďwearí (the area just above the front of the mouth opening), which is too steep & needs easing back to reduce choking, and I think the angle on the toe of the cap-iron also needs reducing a bit. I hope a bit more fiddling & fettling will soon have it up to standard.

    It'ss about 10mm longer and 3-4mm wider, but otherwise a repeat of the gidgee plane & eventually should be at least as good a performer. Pr 3.jpg

    The combination of brass & SS should ensure the body is still sound long after the woodwork has turned to dust. Before I started on this plane, I was contemplating an all-stainless model, just for the heck of it. I know some already exist, so it wouldnít be unique, but I think itíll be a good while and a few visits to the physiotherapist before I glove-up for another round with another chunk of the gifted stainless steel!

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #127
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    An interesting read Ian. The "wear" that you refer to above is an aspect of plane making that seems to get little mention by plane builders. Are there any rules of thumb regarding the angles relative to the blade and clearance between the wear and the blade.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  9. #128
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    I will not name said fellow, but I too was the benefactor of said steel,
    But it was a pleasant surprise, as mine came unexpected,

    The Stainless steel that is[emoji6].

    Iím yet to use any, Iím waiting for it too a acclimatise too itís more south environment.

    Cheers Matt.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    An interesting read Ian. The "wear" that you refer to above is an aspect of plane making that seems to get little mention by plane builders. Are there any rules of thumb regarding the angles relative to the blade and clearance between the wear and the blade.
    Hi Tony. I take it that the name comes from it being an allowance for wear & re-finishing of wooden soles. The first few mm of the front of the mouth slope back so that when the sole is planed to clean it up, the mouth opening remains the same & doesn't get bigger. So the only rule I can think of is that the slope should be parallel with the bed slope, to maintain the same gap if the sole is planed.

    You don't really need this on a metal plane because soles don't need re-finishing regularly or certainly not to the same extent as a wooden one. So the front of the mouth on most metal planes slopes forwards from the get-go. When making the mouth for my planes I like to keep it tight, and it happens that when filing the bed bevel, the file can hit the front of the mouth & create something just like the wear on a wooden plane. I don't mind this because it gives me a comfortable margin when lapping the sole, but if it remains too tight or extends too far, as it does in this plane, it can impede shavings & needs (careful) adjustment. I always find opening mouths a bit fraught - it seems to go from too tight to too much in about 3 file strokes.

    I'll be busy elsewhere for the next few days so I probably won't get to fettle the little beast for a while - it's not the sort of job I like to do on the fly, so I'll wait 'til I have plenty of time to think & fiddle with it...

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    ....I’m yet to use any, I’m waiting for it too a acclimatise too it’s more south environment....
    And while you're waiting, I suggest you sharpen up your files...
    IW

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post

    The other pieces were covered in a scale which cleans off easily enough, leaving a surface covered in very shallow pits which take a bit more elbow-grease to sand out, but come out eventually. I think my benefactor said they had been used where they were exposed to heat & steam for a long time. SS.jpg

    I cut a little piece off & beat the heck out of it & it seemed to cold-work ok, it spread out to more than twice its original width without any sign of cracking. It seemed much the same as the thin plate. I decided to make a smallish plane that would be quick & straightforward, & I had in mind something like this small rear-bun smoother I made a couple of years ago. This plane has the cute factor, but Iíve found it a really useful size & wonder how I ever got along without it: 2 Nose fixed.jpg

    Long story short, the thick plate turned out to be something a bit more challenging than the 3.2mm stuff. Whether it was just the added thickness, or a slightly different alloy, it was definitely less easy to work with. I didnít do any WIP shots, youíve seen enough of those, and photos wouldnít show my problems anyway. I demolished a hacksaw blade, several files and many more jewellers saw blades on this one small plane, much more than I expected. Starting with a new blade or file, it felt much the same as sawing or filing mild steel, but very quickly, I could feel things going downhill. I can normally saw at least 70mm in 5mm mild steel with a good quality jewellers saw blade before it becomes dull & slows down, but I found the blades giving up the ghost in less than half that distance on the SS. Cutting out the dovetail sockets & filing the mouth & blade bevel took me much longer than I expected & I used up at least twice as many blades as I would have on mild steel. One of the files I was using was about half worn out at the start, itís totally worn now!
    Ian

    That's a pity you has such difficulty with some of the SS material. I think you, and Matt, should choose your benefactors more wisely in the future. I mean to say, with "friends" like that who needs "enemies!" If unable to do that I would at least insist that the material came with a set of files. As far as I can see the plus side is that it has brought you out of retirement into plane view and built up your muscle structure as a side benefit.

    The SS plate you have pictured above doesn't look as though it has been subjected to heat, at least not deliberately, but more like it was used in the alignment of large electric motors such as used in power stations: Just my guess.

    Having said all that, your plane has come up a treat and reminds me of a plane I received recently:

    P1070642 (Medium).JPGP1070643 (Medium).JPGP1070644 (Medium).JPGP1070645 (Medium).JPG

    This is only the second time I have indulged in "selfies" with the other time being a couple of days ago with saw handle designs! How do you think I would go as a hand model or should I stick to my day (and night) job? Anyhow the plane is not large measuring 95mm overall and weighing in at a mighty 200g. I think of it as my "Diddy" plane (Any of you remember Ken Dodds, the British comedian with the wacky hair do, and the Diddy people).

    It holds a special (small) place in my plane array and is treasured.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #132
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    I should have added that this plane has a 20mm wide blade and works a treat and the very striking Oak (Casuarina, Bull Oak I think)) grain is particularly well orientated.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ..... and the very striking Oak (Casuarina, Bull Oak I think)) grain is particularly well orientated....
    Nope, not bull oak, it's Hairy oak, Paul - to match the infill of the 'antibody'....

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #134
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    Had a bit of time to spare yesterday afternoon, so spent it playing with the new plane. As I'd suspected, it needed a bit more work on the mouth mainly to allow a close-fitting cap iron down far enough, so there is little or no "wear" left now, & any future lapping will open the mouth slightly. It's unlikely the sole will need anything more done to it in the next 100 years or so, unless it has a catastrophic accident of some sort.

    The blade & cap-iron also needed a bit more attention, I (almost) finished lapping the back to my satisfaction, and got the cap-iron sitting properly. I had to bend it a teeny bit more to bring the edge down another .5mm or so to make it a bit tighter when screwed down. Now the action feels very solid. I gave it my acid test & fed it some gidgee, followed by some forest red-gum. The latter is very difficult to plane cleanly and dulls edges quicker than any of the gnarly woods in my collection. But my home-cooked blade did remarkably well on it, and came through the test with no evident chipping, which surprised me because I thought it was still too hard. The surface it left was as silky-smooth after several minutes of planing as when I started, so I won't try to temper it any more just yet, I'll use it for a while & see how it goes.

    All in all, I'm quite pleased with this one, I managed to keep the mouth to just what I wanted. Getting them 'perfect' is a struggle, as I said, I seem to go from nowhere near enough opening to too much in a half-dozen file strokes. It's much finer than the Gidgee plane (left), which is still an excellent performer Pr 4.jpg

    The photos make both mouths look larger than they really are, due to light being refracted by the edges. The new plane's mouth is somewhere between 0.2 & 0.3mm, as near as I can measure/estimate, which in my book is as good as it needs to be. Even that gap will choke with heavier cuts on many of our gummy woods.

    So it looks like I've got a new plane to love, once the pain of its birth recedes into the past....

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #135
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    It would appear that birthing pains are relatively quickly forgotten (there are nearly 8 billion of us humans) so I am still looking forward to the next generation of hand planes from the Wilkie stable. Also I had meant to comment on your infill. I can't remember what it is called: "Over stuffing?" That is so much more difficult to achieve well and you seem to be able to bash them out time after time with consistency. I don't think anybody in the challenge has attempted this yet and time is running out for this skill.

    Regards
    Paul.
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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