Thread: 1928 Sydney Harbor Ferry

Originally Posted by myrnaboys

as i said...........wanker...........thanks for the assistance from the guys that have helped............but this kind of crap we dont need.......bitter and twisted people arent what we are about......we will just get on with the job..........no more posts from us

I know that I am a newbie here, but my 2cents.

You guys asked for advice stating that you have no major experience with wooden boats. From what I have read through these boat forums Wild Dingo does. He offered you some good advice that would only lead to the longivity of your boat and you flame him online.

I think that you guys are the WANKERS for not having the decency to listen to and respect a senior members opinions. He is just trying to help!

Yep thats it!! Just ignore me... Like I care

You said you wanted advice assistance and help sorry I took notice of that and offered some... mmm if that makes me a wanker whats asking for advice and when getting it (even if you dont like it) make you sport?

By all means as has been said before keep posting and updating us Id be interested to know how it goes... seriously! And also as Ive repeatedly said she is a beauty.

Steve go have a friggin read will you? Then suck a bloody goanna's ass! No where have I made any comment that says or implies its not up to my standard... ALL I HAVE said all along is for this idiot to do the job right!...

You and he are happy having broken frames in your OLD wooden boat? Remind me to tell you to get stuffed if you ever ask me to go fishing with you eh!...

And yeah that black stuff on the paint? Tells anyone who cares to look that this idiot didnt clean the bliges so couldnt have got close enough a look to KNOW what the hells wrong with it...

I flamed him? Dont be a bloody jerk Steve! I nowhere near flamed this idiot... I offered him advice not accolades... I offered some suggestions not pats on the back... I offered him a suggestion on a few areas that I saw as potential problem areas that he showed in his pictures not cuddles and huggies... I also offered my opinion of shyteheaded morinic dipsticks who buy these beautiful old boats then cause theyre too up their own asses to actually listen to advice F*** the entire restoration up and then cry in their friggin beers cause its broken cause they were offered some advice but decided they "dont need this"... WHEN ITS WHAT THEY BLOODY ASKED FOR!!... did I say or imply that meant him and his mates? no its a generalisation based on years of watching said shytehead moronic dipsticks... he wants to take that personal thats his choice...yet cause I do offer advice and dont play the luvy duvy everythings wonderful game Im a wanker??

Remind me not to offer advice or knowledge or anything to someone that asks for it... instead I will do like youve done eh? "Ooooh goodie look at that lovely old boat isnt it beautiful good job well done mate dont worry about the nasty bloke over there who is offering you advice ignore him listen to me Im praising you"

BULLBLOODYSHYTE! This idiot asked for our advice when someone gives it and he doesnt like it so he starts calling that person names? what a crock of crap! :mad:

ITS AN OLD BOAT... 1928 remember!! Friggin hell it would be a RARE as hens teeth that any OLD WOODEN BOAT didnt have a fair few problems! Let alone one from 1928!!... he said he was a skiff sailor not a boat builder remember... he asked for advice REMEMBER!! I didnt say there were DEFINANTLY broken frames just that it looked like there were POSSIBLY a few but I also said the bloody pic was a bit IFFY to say definantly... damn this gives me the bloody shytes!

Idiotboy... Sometimes the best advice you can get is the advice you dont want to hear!

You want advice? take it with good grace... if its not what you want to hear then maybe just bloody maybe the person offering it is just trying to get you to be bloody realistic with it think about it and do the job right the first time cause idiotboy theres rarely a second chance if that persons right and youre wrong!.. But hey ignore me and go right along friggin around maybe it will be okay listen to the panderers and people who have no love of boats listen to the oohhs and ahhs pats on the backs and other shyte from those who dont have a bloody clue and dont offer any real advice go right ahead...

Idiot

(hey! At least I didnt start swearing at him cause he didnt like my advice I mean I could have really said what I thought and pulled no punches!! But I was controlled and just called him an idiot... which if he doesnt at least get the shyte off the bloody bilges and get down to bare wood so he can SEE the wood he proves he is)

It was only AFTER my initial post that idiotboy objected to that he stated...

as to your comments re the bilge........it has already been cleaned and checked.....we are lucky enough to have some good freinds who are capable boat builders and restorers and who offer encouragement rather than misguided spiteful comments...

So suddenly hes got some good freinds that are capable boat builders and restorers?? So were now meant to be bloody mind readers as well? Why didnt idiot boy say that in the first place? And if its so why the hell ask for advice help and assistance here! hes already got expert advice!... I made spiteful comments? WHERE? If I did my apologies if however all I did was to offer advice and opinion one of which you asked for the other Im entitled to then you owe me an apology for the "wanker" comment :mad:You say I should get my ducks in a row? Fine no problems BUT let me suggest you stop pissin in everyones pockets idiotboy... why didnt you say you have good freinds who were capable boatbuilders and restorers when you made the comments about not knowing what your doing? That would have helped with the responses... idiot

And where does idiotboy say anything about the boat being a "goer" Steve? Id suggest your talking about his comments here on the first post right?...

we slipped her and got her going and brought her up to Sydney in big 2 mtere swells a couple of weeks ago

Well scuse me... But where does he state that he or his mates have fixed it so its a proper goer so theyve taken the motor/s out checked it them over repaired parts replaced etc...ooh thats right NOWHERE!!... oops the pic of the bilge sans motor tells us that hes done the motor up a treat doesnt it of course it does silly me! Just because they managed to get the motor running enough to get them to their slip to do the work doesnt mean that the bloody motors been fixed or even looked at by someone who has a clue... or does it?

What other forums has he posted to?... and what other coments has he gained from them that could be negative?... he certainly hasnt posted to Woodenboat.com's forums which would have to be the most respected forum on the internet for woodenboat builders restorers and designers (lets not get into the "bilge" forum section here thats a different kettle of fish entirely!!) and should have been one of the first places he should have posted his questions on... gawd I could just imagine his sookylala attitude to Bob Cleek or Dave Fleming when they tell him the same as I did only harsher... he thinks mine are bad try "FUGGEDABOUDIT" for a response!... but the helps there if he chooses to listen to it...

Okay one last bit of advice idiotboy? go to http://www.woodenboat.com then click on forums its down the right hand side of the page... then go to this thread in the "building and repair" forums http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=48786 a fella named Jim Hillman and others have gathered a wealth of information together from over the years posted by KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE like oohh I dont know lets say... boatbuilders (large and small), boat restorers (large and small), naval archetects designers (all sorts of designs) naval surveyors ferrymen sailors fishermen powerboaters people who own and build and use woodenboats of all discriptions and ages... you know that sort of people knowledgable professional experienced people... then just click the highlighted links and you go to a page that has all the info on many issues related to woodenboats... then if the answer to your questions isnt there then by all means post a question in the building and repair or misc boat related forums and you will get measured intelligent knowledgable responses from people all over the world... for free!!... mmm but then again you will be asking for advice wont you? and maybe they will also give it and then you will chuck a sookielala like you have here and then you will get a response like you have here... mmm so maybe in the words of Bob Cleek lets just FUGGEDABOUDIT!!

sigh all right enough...
Idiotboy... I truely hope that you and your mates (all of them) can get Myrna back to her original state or even to a state where you can enjoy her for some years to come believe it or not I actually wish you the best... as Ive said before she is a beauty and could be once again

oops sorry didnt see you up there Gryphon...Thanks for the support and let me be the first to welcome to the forums... dont lurk!!

Dingo does bite occasionally but he also knows a great deal - particularly about traditionally built boats.

One major structural omission are the floors that hold the two sides of the boat together. As she is she will split down the middle if she gets any significant loads.

"Floor or Floor Timber - A transverse structural member lying across the keel and tying the frames on either side of the keel together. The central futtock or futtocks of a sawn frame, lying across the
keel. Floor timbers join both sides of a vessel together and make up the substructure for external keel fastenings, engine beds, and mast steps."
from - http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/nvic/7_95/n7-95.htm

At the moment there doesn't look like theres anything taking that load.

You cant rely on the keel to hold the two sides of the boat together because it is running longitudinally and will simply split as neatly as if you run an axe down the middle of kindling timber - straight down the grain - allowing the two halves of the boat to go their own ways.

The floors also prevent the boat from spreading out of shape immediately above the keel. It also allows the engine weight and any rig loads to carried in the centreline structure.

Here is a link to the Maritime Safety website with a link to the USL code which is a system that gives designers and builders some idea of standard practice.

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/uslcode_disclaimer.html

Look down the list for "construction - wood" and download the PDF

It has drawings of the parts and tells you what size they have to be and how they have to be fastened.

I hate the USL code with a vengeance because it doesn't allow light modern boats to be built using new methods (though the system is being changed - finally) - but for a 1922 ferry it will be PERFECT.

It is a good basis for restoring the boat. I would actually suggest you hire someone (ie a qualified marine surveyor or traditionally trained shipwright) to have a look over what you have. It will cost you a few hundred, but you will save a few thousand as they will be able to pinpoint any problems quickly and efficiently and give you a couple of different suggestions about how to fix them.

But have a look over the USL code first.

One possible misunderstanding you will get from the USL code is that it allows galv fastenings. These are not the ones you generally get from Bunnings, which are too thinly galvanised and will last about a year, but ones with very heavy galvanising.

See if you can dig us someone who actually knows this sorta stuff in your local area. Invite him around for a coupla beers every few weeks.

If your boatbuilding mates haven't mentioned the omission of floors - you had better look elsewhere for help - maybe they know something about painting boats, but to not notice this major omission ...

There are lots of people who sorta know stuff and others who really do - for example I qualify as one who sorta knows about traditional construction - but I sorta know enough to recognise when someone ACTUALLY knows.

Get a hold of a couple of books on traditional boat building. Sam Rabl did a good one - Bud Macintosh (Dingo - where are you when you're needed! Which books do you reckon are good enough to grace your bookshelf and have enough pictures for me to understand!?)

Best Regards
Michael Storer

Not to offer this idiotboy any advice Mik as he wont listen :mad: ... and I must admit Im waiting for him to charge back in and call you a derogitory name for also daring to offer advice... ooh and quick before he gets the opportunity his boat is 1928 model not 1922... carefull there old mate! ut hang on he may well come in and tell me Im wrong and if Id dared read the thread and what he had posted Id have known it was an 1828 model... and Id be an even bigger "wanker" (note here Id love to know how he thinks he knows Im a wanker since hes over there and Im here and anyways whats my sexual predilicshuns got to do with him? aaah the dopey gits a wino in the making!!! Thats it... steady Shane steady gettin close to havin a go at idiotboy here... STOP IT!!! ooohh but I cant its just sooooo freekin easy!!

Anyway as you suggest Rabl is great as is Buds build a woodenboat bloody terrific for a novice as idiotboy no doubt is but will probably next tell us hes built several gaff rigged galleons for GW Bush and co as a gift and that his brillaince is unsurpassed in the boatbuilding world... stop it Shane! sorry my bad ... as it has masses of self explaintory pictures and recommends some interesting different methods he also has a very simplistic style which should suit idiotboy to a tee... but in fact not to imply Buds book is for only such as idiotboy in fact its bloody brilliant for anyone! I know a NA in Canada who reads it constantly... as Bud had such a wealth of experience knowledge and a manner thats quite engaging... another would be Skenes and then of course Chappell tomes if wordy technogabble is your forte... Actually Skenes is a mainstay of many a designers bookshelf and Chappels are full of offsets lines and sail plans of various boats... theres a couple of other must haves that are on the tip of me tongue but are presently arguing with me just now

I still steadfastly maintain that idiotboy should go to woodenboat.com and ask his questions there... many is the novice that has gone there and come away with a huge source of invaluable information

Damn!!! that could be read as giving him advice yet again!!! Buggar!!

Course my spellings totally upta as per usual

Ok Shane I am here but the dance seems to be over? They have the makings of a nice boat. I do believe a closer look at the bilge area is in order. But I don't think they will as it would slow down the party they are trying to get to. A real shame as I would give a eye tooth to have a boat like that on the river where I live.....too bad.

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Just ignore me...



Remind me not to offer advice or knowledge or anything to someone that asks for it...

Consider yourself reminded.

Welcome to the forum Jim
And yes its a flamin brilliant looking old boat and mate same here with givin my eyeteeth for one the same

Steve... thank you for the reminder!

idiyotboy just wanted everyone to know he had a boat that makes most boaties envious. Wild dingo pointed out that myrnaboys are bloody idiots and have no real knowledge of restoration. They were probalby peed off that someone knows more than they do. the fact they will not post again is blessing, we don't need these tuggers on line.

Originally Posted by ernknot

the fact they will not post again is blessing, we don't need these tuggers on line.

I am sure at some times I sound like a bit of a tugger too )

Being skiff boys they probably know a bit aoubt some things - but if you want to see what a whole lot of skiff boys look like when they are communicating - have a look at the forae at Sailing Anarchy. I usually end up feeling so angry and embarrassed just reading the stuff that I always vow never to return.

MIKxx

Hi Wild Dingo,
I am one of the workers from the photo (on the left). Please excuse the Myrnaboys writer as hes a bit grumpy at the moment and actually knows stuff all about what we are doing. I REALLY APPRECIATE all of the advice on things to do. The bilge has been cleaned out (boy was that fun...gag...gag) and the inside hull vacuumed as Gerni & wooden boat do not mix. Anyway, I have looked up all of the things you have suggested and made a list of to do's. we are on number 4 of 22 and slowly but surely getting her right. We are getting a lot of help out of Woolwich Marina and their expertise. We are rediscovering the joy or everdure and I will keep the thread and photos going.
Look thanks again for your thoughts, all have been listened to (well 3 out of 4 of us anyway) and put into action.
when I figure out how to post a photo with my 9 month old at the wheel on a sunny day (heaven for me & him) i';ll do it
Ben

Boatmik,
Thanks for the advice and the links.
We bought this off a carpenter and not a shipwright and we have found that he wasnt much of a carpenter (Oh Jesus!?!) and we have had to replace repair or return where necessary. Previous owner must have had a mate at West Systems cause there is more epoxy than wood in most of the joins.
We did have and keep getting advice from a ships surveyor who helps and has pointed out a lot of the things we have missed as mentioned in the forum.
Thanks for all the help
Myrna worker
Ben

Welcome in Myrna Worker. Actually this thread has been good for getting a few new people in welcome to all. Myself I am into wood for it's beauty and don't know anything at all about building boats but that bilge made me think that is a ton of work to clean that out and get it right. Being the bilge I would have thought it best to do it really mickey mouse because as the job goes on the bilge is tucked away out of sight and forgotten. Anyway sounds as if you are in touch with people who know something about it and also have done the bilge allready. Like Dingo points out it is a really good idea to be fussy with the structure. If it were me doing the job I would be thinking in terms of stripping all the paint off all over so you could see what is going on underneath. It is the old do it once do it well idea. When the paint is off you will find out what timber is good and what isn't and you might find some dodgies that the builders let past that you want to fix properly now.

Anyway good luck with it all. Keep us posted about how you are going.

To post pics just scroll down the page a bit and click the manage attatchments button. Then you select a file and upload it by clicking the buttons. make sure the file is less than 100K and that is all there is to it.

Studley

Stripping all the paint off in the bilge is a huge job..almost impossible to get at with power tools and that means hand scraping 80 years worth of paint off.The shippies at Woolwich have an excellent rep and as you no doubt know they have a fair bit of experience in old wooden boats.Perhaps ask them about the viability of completely stripping it and be guided by their advice.
It really depends what level of restoration you are aiming for.IMHO,it may be better to concentrate on ensuring the boat is safe and seaworthy and I assume this has been done.If there is a way around completely stripping it then that would probably be the way to go.It would mean having the boat out of the water for a lengthy period ;people tend to lose enthusiasm for boats that aren't being used regularly.Keep using her as much as possible and keep having parties on board and people will stay interested in the boat.
She is obviously a workboat and likely to have been in survey for much of her life so even if the last owner neglected her she is likely to be in basically sound condition.The bilge doesn't look too bad to me.I promise...there are working boats in survey on the harbour with bilges that look much worse than Myrna's but are checked by Maritime NSW for soundness and safety annually.
I hope you guys resist the urge to varnish everything.To me,it would detract from the character of the boat as well as being a lot of work to maintain.A well finished paint job will really set her off nicely.
Working boats like this have a charm all their own..somehow,the fact that they have earned their living makes them much more appealling to me than a finely finished yacht.It's good to see that she is in good hands and I'll look forward to seeing her out on the water.
Best wishes and happy voyages!
Steve

Okay so the Maritime mob inspect them... are they the ones that are going to trust their lives to that boat? Are they the ones who will accept blame or responsibility for the planks that may pop the garboard that may split the frames that need sistering but cause they cant see past the 80 years of paint and gumph dont get done and so when they finally give will the Maritime mob in NSW take responsibility for that?... No the wont!... The only ones who can BE ABSOLUTELY SURE that its done right are the blokes working on her!

The Maritime mobs are just like you and me mate theyre humans doin a job and often like all humans doin a job they become complaicent bored sick and tired phisssed of over worked whatever... theyre human and its that very human frailty that doesnt find fault doesnt take the time or are just so damned busy and snowed under with work that they may just may skip a few things along the way...

Are you prepared to risk it? are you prepared to put everything on the line trusting that those bods who have no invested or emotional interest in her get it right?

Not knockin the maritime inspectors hell they do a great job! Just that its my belief that if your going to do a job then do it right first time dont trust someone else seeing what you may have missed... dont miss it in the first place!

Is it soooo much work to get down and scrape that paint and gumph of? is it really sooo hard? rather than saying that lets say this... Isnt it worth the effort?... Isnt a 1920 built boat with a history worth taking that little bit more effort with?... Isnt she Myrna worth the time effort sweat and tears to do whatever has to be done?

Trust not the maritime boys trust yourself!!

If you believe youve done EVERYTHING... covered every base... fixed every possible potential problem and gotten filthy dirty, tired as buggary and sick and tired of sanding sanding sanding and yet more sanding... then quite possibly you will be right... but to not do it and trust the maritime boys to clear her to sail or motor with you, your family and your friends lives on the line would to me be the height of foolishness

Take the time to do whatever has to be done to ENSURE that she is seaworthy in the first instance and she will be as good as she can ever be.

Im not sayin these fellas cant just do a slap dash job (not that Im implying they are!!) and get it passed cause shes an old workboat Im sayin why not do a great job a thorough job the first time get it right the first time and ENJOY the process and then the journey and after that KNOW she is as safe seaworthy and beautiful as you could make her havin taken the time to do it right... thats all Im saying

I beleive that these "old workboats" ferrys luggars even the old coutas should be treated with respect given the history behind them... sure they were workboats but they were beautiful in their way as well they served their owners well they lasted the distance because someone took the time to do it right the first time round... its only befiting that an owner some 80+ years down the track should take care to do the same.

Good luck to the "boys" working on her be that Ben or the other chap or the others involved!! May she be all you could ever dream of
Shane

PS... keep posting updates!!! and pics!!! I promise not to blast you again... seriously I wont... well much anyways!!