Thread: 1963 Heron Sailboat repair and restoration

Tape's easy to get off - you just hit it with the heat gun to soften the goop and scrape it off, same as you do with paint. When I redid my old Torch (like Hawk, my old boat was an oddball), the tape came off as a natural part of taking off the paint, but mainly because I knew that retaping is easy.

To retape (again, explained elsewhere - all Mik's designs tape the seams so the instructions are all through his site and threads), just slap on some poxy, lay on the tape, slap on some more poxy, let it set and clean up the edge ... sort of. No biggie and to be honest, if the tape is old, my thoughts are to get it off and redo it anyway - I made that leap when doing the Torch.

Richard

Originally Posted by CraigCanberra

How do you get the tape off? It sounds like the thing to do.

I've not had to remove tape before, but a lot will depend on how well it is still attached. If it has truly started to let go already, then I'd try and get a scraper...something like a putty knife or similar...and work carefully, trying not to pull up the ply laminations. If it looks like it's stuck well on one side, but letting go on the other, then a disc sander is probably your friend.

Like I said, not having had to make that sort of repair before, others may be able to give more experienced advice, but that's how I'd approach it. That said, I have a reasonably well tooled shed, so I a few different options. When I first started playing with boats, I would have had trouble dressing a replacement timber for your keel. Now days I could manage that easily.

When it comes to disc sanders, my favourite is an orbital disc sander...the self adhesive models are my first choice, but I can only afford the velcro pad ones. When I first started, it was the rubber disc on my power drill...a very cheap option that can remove a lot of material, but you need to be VERY carefull, as they're a but like using a belt snder...they can remove a lot of material real fast, and leave gouges if you're not careful.

OK...Daddles just got in ahead of me, so I'll stop right there.
--
Hawk

When removing tape, a lot of fuss over putty knives, heat guns and just yanking at are discussed, but I've removed quite a bit of tape over the years and the best way is the quickest, not the neatest.

The act of removal will force more thickened epoxy, more tape and fairing anyway, so don't bother being neat about it. find an edge if you can, clamp down on it with a pair of locking pliers (Vise Grips) and yank it off the boat with a good, clean jerk. With some luck, it'll "zipper" open the seam and come off in a strip.

If the tape is still well stuck, they stop fussing around and pull out the big disk sander. My favorites are a 10 amp 7" or the "big mother" 13 amp 10". The 10" will tear your arms off if you don't have a good grip and with 16 or 24 grit paper will quickly eat through all the veneers of 12 mm plywood in less then a minute. If I'm absolutely sure there are no fasteners, I'll even use a power plane and just plow off a 1/16" of material at a time. A belt sander with very course grit is a good tool, especially in skilled hands, which is also true of an angle grinder.

These tools, with aggressive paper, will very quickly remove tape, wood (skin off your hands) so use care, because they work quickly. No kidding, I can grind through a 10 ounce, taped seam in just a few seconds with the 7" or 10" disk sander and 16 or 24 grit. It'll take about a minute per foot with a good belt sander and 40 grit paper. To me this is way too much time, but it is safer for the novice and the lower grit papers can be hard to find. If you use 24 grit in the belt sander you can do one foot of seam in 30 seconds, 16 grit, maybe around 15 seconds.

It may seem anal actually knowing the time it takes to remove material with different tools, but many jobs may require I cost out this time for a fair estimate. Besides, I've done it so many times, I can actually picture the seam disapearing under the tool as I sweep the area.

In short, you're going to have to fill the area, tape the area, fair the area, block sand the area anyway. If a little more effort in filling saves you a bunch of headache with material removal, then it's a reasonable trade off.

PAR... I like the way you think The tape has split around both sides of the keel, as you can see in one of the pics. From gleaning all the things said here, what I need to do is get the tape off, let the hull dry right out, and start again. Not too bad, now that I get it straight in my head. I'm not scared of big tools - I used to work on 30 ton dozers - but destroying a hull for stupidity does.

I'm about halfway through the port hull bottom. So far, I've found some more rot. This time, it looks to be a bit into the structure. Poo again! I'll get a pic of that as best I can.

This side of the hull seems a lot harder to strip than the other. And I think I can say that's it's had more hits than Elvis

And thanks everyone for your help - without this forum I would have been totally confused.

OK. More pics. The forward rot is pretty bad. Both of it looks to be in the structure. If I had the skill and tools, I'd seriously think about replacing the hull, but I don't so I will work within my limits. The forward bit of rot, and the lifting fibreglass patch are right on the bouyancy compartment bulkhead. Previous owner just used to bail as he sailed

Anyone have any suggestions as to the suitability of the Rot Doctor and/or West system products to sort this out? They seem like the goods, and if so - where in Australia do you get them?

Cheers
Craig

Pics for you to laugh at me or cry with me (or this is no big deal and it just looks pretty bad)

Might be time to pull the deck off and have a look inside I think. Maybe if it's just in the lower bulkhead frame it's still worthwhile fixing.

Says he who hasn't got a clue about what he is talking about.

Mike

That's cool mike - the deck there has delaminated and perished, so I was doing that anyway

It's a framed boat, there's nothing hard about pulling off a ply panel and replacing it, especially as you'll have the original to use as a template

Richard

Daddles.... you've assumed skill and tools. I might be able to do it. Do you rip the tape off, unscrew the panel, get the nails off, lie it flat on a new bit of ply, cut it out the new bit, and put back on, tape and seal with epoxy?

I just realise that the inside looks to be sealed with epoxy (or varnish) but the outer hull wasn't. The first nick in the paint would have started this mess, right? It would have been almost impossible to dry right out.

So a new panel might be an option. Is it that bad? I know replacement is always better than a patch, but in this situation, how long should the patching last before I get problems again?

Given the wetness of the wood, I now intend to let the boat dry out for a week or so. good plan?

There's another recent thread about letting a plywood hull dry out. It may take more then a week.

Don't be worried Craig, get in there with a grinder and have at that tape and putty. The putty looks heavy enough to nock off with a chisel. You'll know when you're through it. So what if you leave some digs, dings and torn wood, it'll all be under new tape and putty eventually. Epoxy is a wood butcher's best friend.

A patch can last longer then you'll live, then again it's all about how much care it gets.

To quote John Welsford: "The mistake has not been made that can not be fixed with epoxy"

Richard

OK guys, I think I'm sold on the epoxy thing. A big reason in that it gets me closer to painting, quicker. That means a quick win with the wife

So thanks, any comments on the Rot Doctor stuff? Where to buy - or something similiar to what they use? I'm happy to patch, but I want a good patch and don't want the rot to come back.

Cheers again!

Rot = boat cancer.
The best Rot Doctor is a jigsaw.
Don't mess with it.
Cut it out.
The worst of it anyway.

Chamfer the edges of your hole, and cut a new piece of ply to fit the hole (as per the diagramme below)
Treat around the edges with CCB solution (copper chromium borate) to kill any rot that you've missed &
allow to dry thoroughly. Landscaping suppliers often stock CCB powder for re-treating saw cuts in permapine.
I've found epoxy sticks well to wood treated with CCB once it has thoroughly dried.
Epoxy in the the new piece of ply.
Sand/fill it to fair it with the existing surface.
Glassing optional.
Paint.

An alternative to CCB is, -after- you glue in the new piece of wood, give the area a nice drink of
glycol (radiator antifreeze) which is toxic to rot organisms & allow to dry.
Then paint.

Both CCB & glycol are cheap but effective rot killers. Cost you a fraction of "boating" products.
I trust glue joins in CCB or CCA treated timber. I don't trust joins made to glycol treated timber,
although glycol probably penetrates deeper into the wood.

cheers
AJ

Craig,
Just tripped over this Youtube clip may be useful if not a liitle entertaining

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twuXrv2Pbuo"]YouTube - System Three Rot Repair Products[/ame]