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Thread: Advice needed

  1. #1
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    Default Advice needed

    I have an old plywood boat in my shed that a neighbour down the road wants fixed. It is of great sentimental value so when I quoted a large number hoping he would decline, he still said go ahead. Fool me should have quoted more. One problem is it has been left out in the weather by a "friend" and the plywood on the decking has delaminated. The other problem is it leaks. Replacing the decking looks to be reasonably straight forward, but the leak is problematic. Now I have the boatI have had a close look and there is a small gap between the keel and the first plank. Originally I thought we would slide the boat off the trailer and flip it and put a bit of epoxy in the gap, but then I noticed the trailer does not have a winch, so getting it back on the trailer would be nightmare, it is not a small boat. So forget that idea. The real problem however is after crawling around underneath I found a lot of tar goop where it has been leaking, and the owner confirmed he was responsible. As far as I know nothing sticks to tar except more tar, and tar doesn’t stick to wood terribly well either, so the original plan is kaput. The tar never fixed the leak, so more tar is not likely to fix it either. The tar is now dried out and flaking off. How to fix this I don’t know. Removing all the tar would be virtually impossible. Any suggestions? Is it fixable?

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  3. #2
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    I think the boat is fixable, so the real question becomes -- how much out of pocket will you be after fixing it?

    Fixing the gap between the first bottom plank (2 off?) and the keel should be relatively straight forward -- but you will have to flip the boat first. Not easy, I know.
    What I suggest is that you flip the boat and cut out the tar using a power saw. And only then decide if you will use epoxy chalking or wood to fill the resulting gap.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  4. #3
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    The owner is paying for all materials and I quoted a large amountfor labour, so I should not be out of pocket. It is just going to take a lot of time, hence the large amount. This all started when a neighbour saw meworking on my boat and he referred this fellow onto me. He was desperate to get someone local whocould do the job, nobody else has the skills nor the tools. I am not an expert at boat repairs, but Ihave done a major restoration on my boat and have been a wood worker since Iwas 13. This boat is 30 years older thanmine, so is quite different (i.e. a lot worse condition).

    What you say makes a lot of sense so I have been crawlingaround and examining it again more carefully with a bright light to see if itis feasible. Looks like the first plankfits into a groove in the keel, so is not as easy as you say. Although it is made from plywood, the boat isclinker built with ribs and rivets. I did find another problem that I think may bewhere the worst leak is. There is a gapbetween the first and second plank about ½ m long. Unfortunately there is some tar in there aswell. The rest of the hull looks to bein quite good condition, unlike the deck. It looks to me like there is some sort of sealant between the planks andthat has been painted over, and the leaks are where the sealant has comeout. What it is I have no idea.

    I seriously don’t want to flip this boat. My boat was easy. I have a tipping trailer and a winch. It took 2 of us to flip, but I flipped itback and got it back on the trailer by myself. This boat’s trailer is not a tipping trailer, there is no winch, and itis quite a bit bigger and heavier. Theback of the trailer is also a fair way off the ground. I thought about removing my winch and usingthat, but there is nowhere to attach the winch to on the other trailer. Not only that, but there is a prop shaft(engine has been removed and is being repaired) that will get in the way and I reallydon’t want to remove it. Risk of damageis high with the prop shaft installed, so it is staying on the trailer for now.

    I have started on the decking and it looks like a real “fun”job, more or less as expected. Corrosion everywhere. The deck is nailed down withwhat looks like galvanised nails. The original nails are so corroded they come out easily, but there are a few more recent nails and screws, also galvanised and corroded, that are stubborn. The owner was warned that although the deckdidn’t look too flash, what was underneath might be worse.

  5. #4
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    there's a guy on YouTube (Leo Sampson) doing something similar to what you are contemplating.
    Sampson Boat Co.
    well worth a longish look
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  6. #5
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    Thanks, quite a bit more ambitious than what I am doing, but doing something very very silly is what I have been thinking all along.

    A bit more progress today. More decking removed and found a magnet to test the nails and screws. Some are magnetic, some not, so is a bit of a mixed bag. Whatever, all will need to be replaced. Found some rot so will need to remove some plywood I was not intending to touch, but no big deal (yet). Fingers crossed it has not spread beyond the plywood, looks like it has not, but won't know until I get some very rusty screws out. So far no rot on any structural timber, all good although covered in filth.

  7. #6
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    "very rusty screws" implies either zinc plating or plain metal rather than galvanised.
    sounds very much as though you're the 3rd or 4th restorer.

    Leo Sampson's restoration is rather ambitious -- but when finished it'll be a great boat.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  8. #7
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    Yep, some one has been there before.

  9. #8
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    How big is the boat and what type of boat?

    Could you erect a pair of sheer legs over the trailer, then use block and tackle to lift boat off trailer in slings, then roll/flip the boat *in* the slings?

    I've done this myself for dinghies up to 16', but if larger than that needs two people to control the rollover.

    Then lower onto trestles to work on underside. Reverse process to get back on trailer.

    I've done this in the carport, with only a 2.4m clearance for a 1.5m beam Lazy-E dinghy (15' long), but it would be better if you had a roof higher than this, say in a decent height shed, then sling the block and tackle from the roof beams/rafters.

    Then all the work is being done undercover. Much easier.

  10. #9
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    Good idea, I have been asking around if I can borrow a block and tackle, but so far no joy.

    At the moment I am putting the leak problem aside and concentrating on the other problems. For the tar issue I have had a few other suggestions, some of which might require the attendance of the fire brigade. Currently am having a hard time removing the stainless fittings which have been attached with silicon bronze bolts and stainless washers. The stainless steel is fine but the bolts have corroded and I am averaging about 1/2h to 3/4h removing each bolt, and they are the easy ones. I need to cut out the rot, but in order to do that the bolts have to come out. 8 done, 8 to go. Looks like the deck plywood was nailed, glued and sealed, but the glue has gone brittle, the varnish cracked and peeled, the nails so corroded some have broken, and the sealant has mostly fallen off. Result is after 3 years in the open, water has got between plywood sheets on the transom and rot set in. One plywood sheet is off which exposed the rot, and one with rot to go so I can get a good look at the solid wood. The owner told me it was in quite good condition before his "friend" got it. I have the engine cover which was not exposed to the weather, and he is right, quite good condition. I need to match the colours and finish of the new plywood to the engine cover which is another problem to solve.

  11. #10
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    Maybe have a look at Putt putt rebuild. This shows the slings I use to turn boats over. It also shows the use of epoxy and glass to rebuild a hull. It's not a process that everyone agrees with but has it's place I believe.
    Mark

  12. #11
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    Thank you, very interesting. I forgot to say that it is an old speedboat. The owner does not want to glass the hull, which is in very good condition apart from the leak and that cursed tar.

  13. #12
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    We used the same slings to lift Vintage Red off the trailer and turn her over. Surprisingly easy with these light hulls.
    003_3.JPG.

  14. #13
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    Today got all the bolts out, and all the deck fittings are off so I can flip with no damage. Just need to get the steering wheel off now, quite rusted so needs to come off anyway. I have been wandering why they used bronze bolts and screws for stainless fittings. Well now I know. They are not stainless at all, but bronze chromium plated. The screws look like they were originally plated as well. That throws a spanner in the works since I was on the verge of ordering a bunch of stainless steel bolts to replace the corroded originals. Cancel that. Plated bronze bolts and screws seem to be unobtainium nowadays.

    Have measured the boat and it comes to 15 & 1/2 ft. Here is a picture.

    IMG_0452.JPG

    Here is a picture of the tar. This is inside the boat where it leaks. There is more tar on the outside, but not as thick as inside.
    IMG_0453.JPG

  15. #14
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    Why not use new bronze fasteners? Readily available from any number of places.
    Laurie - away from the sea

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Water View Post
    Why not use new bronze fasteners? Readily available from any number of places.
    That is my intention.

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