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19th April 2010, 01:20 AM #1
Building a Stir Ven – 22ft Timber Day Sailor Camp Cruiser
Hi Forumers (that’s probably not a word)!
I’ve been lurking around this forum off an on for a while now, but never felt I had much of use to contribute. Finally though I think I have something worthwhile to post.
Over the last 12 months or so I’ve been building a Stir Ven. This is a 22ft timber day sailor designed by Francios Vivier. You can check it out at his website Classic yachts and traditional sailboats
I first saw this boat a few years back in Wooden Boat Magazine, but it took a while for me to realise this was the boat for me.
I’ve been running a blog which you can checkout at My Stir Ven Build. This has been a good motivator and a chance to communicate with other builders of this design. Most builders are in France, UK or Europe, I know of one in the US. I’d love to hear from anyone based in OZ who may have considered, or is considering building this design or any other Vivier Designs.
I’m about a week away from hull turnover and as with most of these sorta projects no idea when it will be finished and floating. That’s not entirely true I do have a rough goal but I’ll keep that to myself for the moment.
Here are some pics of various stages in the build, I’ll keep posting on my blog and if there is much interest here I’ll keep this thread up to date as well.
Cheers and Thanks this forum has been a great source of how to and where from info for me.
Status as of yesterday Boot Top My Stir Ven Build
The underwater bit Hull Painting My Stir Ven Build
Planking excitment (sometime just before Chrissy)
Planking Almost Done My Stir Ven Build
Nude before planking
Bulkheads and moulds are done My Stir Ven Build
Wrestling in a centrecase on my pat
Centre Case, Keel & Stem My Stir Ven Build
Before I moved into my mates warehouse to begin hull construction I was limited to making long skinny things in my long skinny shed at home. I pretty much built everything here first.
Mast making
Building the mast My Stir Ven Build
Oar making
Oars, Oars, Oars My Stir Ven Build
Gaff jaw making
Gaff is Finished My Stir Ven Build
Tiller making
The Tiller My Stir Ven Build
Rudder head
The Rudder My Stir Ven Build
In the beginning –
About Me My Stir Ven Build
Before I had any clue how any of this was going to pan out.
That's about it for the minute.
Mike
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19th April 2010 01:20 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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19th April 2010, 03:40 PM #2
Congratulations on the blog, the build and this thread already Mike. Fantastic to see a big project on this forum- particularly a beautiful hull from a very fine designer.
You've already given us plenty to think about, thanks
Rob
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24th April 2010, 02:11 PM #3Senior Member
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Great post Mike,quite a project for your first lapstrake.
Your blog is a beaut,smart idea to get so many of the ancillary things things out of the road early so they're ready when the boat is (wish I'd taken the time to do it).I love Vivier's designs,it's great to see a local one on the forum,looking forward to the turnover.
Cheers,
Dave.
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25th April 2010, 01:35 AM #4
Turn Over Day
Rob, Dave thanks for taking the time to checkout my blog. Sounds like you're both familiar with Francois Vivier's boats. It would be good to see more of his designs being built in OZ. The Stir Ven was the closest thing to a Couta boat that I could find that would go on a trailer and that I thought I could build!
The plans are very detailed and easy to follow. My boat has been built from the plan dimensions only, no mylar patterns or pre-cut kits which are options and so far any inaccuracies are all my own fault.
So today was turnover day, a big milestone in any boat builders journey. All went well and now my boat is finally the right way up and looking very much like a boat!
I've documented the whole extravaganza and more pics on my blog
Turn Over Day My Stir Ven Build
So this thread doesn't just continue to be a link to my Stir Ven blog I'll do some posts on my musings and experinces, good and bad of being an amateur boat builder and the hurdles I've overcome to get this far.
Cheers
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25th April 2010, 09:54 PM #5
Congratulations! She looks really fine. And as to the Couta boat inspiration, as a modern alternative she's going to be more buoyant in a swamping, more trailerable- and probably a whole lot cheaper (but still more than expected)
Great work.
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7th May 2010, 10:03 AM #6Senior Member
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That must be a relief Mike,she sure looks beautiful.
Just a thought,are you planning on using those oars much?Rowing a 22' boat should be quite a workout.
Cheers,
Dave.
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7th May 2010, 02:03 PM #7
Hi Dave,
The oars are definitely a two man proposition and probably only over short distances. I think this design gets used in Raids a lot (no motors). My brother in law wants to do the three peaks race in Tassie when it's finished – 3 days of running, sailing etc no motors, so maybe they'll come in handy then! It also has a scull for manoeuvring in tight marinas, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can master that one. Though I've made these things and it was fun and interesting I'm sure the outboard will be pretty popular.
Mike
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2nd September 2010, 07:51 PM #8
Centre Board Dilemma
I've manged to get myself into a bit of a tiz over the centreboard for the Stirven, so I'm definitely looking for advice!
The plans specify a cast iron centreboard final weight 180kg! A bit of a beast and not a straight forward proposition. Undaunted and without doing much research I went ahead and built a casting pattern out of MDF following the designers plans, all good so far (pics below).
I then got a quote from a foundry in Melbourne to cast this monster –#$3500. I had a mild heart attack at this point maybe I chose the wrong foundry or maybe that's how much these things cost? No idea from my part as I've never commissioned anything like this before.
I then contacted the builder of Stirvens in France and he could supply me with the board for about €1500 plus shipping. Once converted and shipping added etc it was going to be close to AUS $3k – still way out of my price range.
I have a new plan, but I don't know if it's viable. I've worked out that I could build the core of the board out of 30mm steel plate and get close to the 180kg I'm after. The idea would be then to have the plate galvanized. I would then glue wood to the outside and shape the foil into the wood, then encase everything in a couple of layers of glass and epoxy and paint.
DIAGRAM OFF MY PLAN
My question is, would this work or would the different materials not stay glued together? Would the different rates of expansion and contraction of wood and steel be a problem?
or
Should I just get the whole thing made of steel? Once again though the cost concerns me. I don't know who to approach for a quote on this type of work!! as I'm an amateur wood guy!
Any thoughts or experience in any of these issue would be greatly appreciated.
By the way I'm painting the inside of the boat at the moment before the deck goes on. Here are some pics of what I've been upto.
Painting can be really uncomfortable!!
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2nd September 2010, 09:44 PM #9
Sounds like a good plan to me as long as it's sealed and glassed I can't see why the assembly will not stay together.
What happens to the plate in the event of capsize in other words how is it controlled? 180kg could really do some damage if it smashes up through the centre case.
I also wonder if the designer would consider internal ballast and a laminated centreboard might be a suitable alternative to that big mongrel thing, remember you got to lift it up again some how. Just a thought.
Man that is a big boat and looking great.
CheersMike
"Working to a rigidly defined method of doubt and uncertainty"
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2nd September 2010, 11:32 PM #10
Thanks Mike for the vote of confidence in my whacky construction idea.
Re what happens if you capsize! –#There is a restraining safety line that keeps the board down if you capsize (I plan to avoid this). It's cleated outside the centrecase so you can release it to raise the board or if you hit something. Apparently this is a European Safety standard requirement. There is a winch on the centre case to raise and lower the beast.
There is another builder in the US who I've been in contact with who has built a board out of ply and lead. His board ended up weighing about 70kg and he made up the difference with internal ballast. To support the board weight and the lateral stress the head of his board ended up being about 70mm thick with the support cheeks on the outside of his centrecase.
This wont work for me as I built my centrecase with the support cheeks on the inside, assuming I'd have a cast iron board with a 30mm thick head, hence my 30mm steel plate idea. I'm pretty keen to keep the maximum weight outside the boat and as low as possible.
As to handling this beast, it has an allowance for a "handling hole" you can see it in the pic below of a cast iron board. This is from a French builder's boat Linotte he has a good blog on his building experience at that link.
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4th September 2010, 02:33 PM #11Novice
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Mate,
Good build so far. I take it the experience in stripping both the kayak and the SUP helped quite a bit.
I followed the link to the Linotte blog, and there is a most interesting series of images showing the boat in question being rescued off a reef by what appears to be a ten oared gig?
The boat is badly holed but floats enough to be towed off the reef and to safety by the gig. What a story!
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4th September 2010, 11:04 PM #12Senior Member
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Have you tried contacting a hobbyist blacksmith? Don't know any in Melbourne but the few we have here in Perth are quite helpful and happy to have a bash.
Try this forum or contact this guy here, he publishes books on home foundries and may well know of someone in your area.
My other thought is casting lead into the foot of the board to make up the weight prior to fairing it as you have done. As a bonus all the weight is down lower, but you'd have to glass up the whole centerboard to get the strength into the ply
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5th September 2010, 09:51 AM #13
Wow!!! the boat looks stunning.
Keel; I don't know much about boat keels but am a boilermaker, having worked in heavy fabrication and construction. I would make this from mild steel plate. It can be profiled with a carbon arc gouge, welded without fatigue issues, have no joints and laminations of differing materials which would always be a concern with delamination and/or eloctrolisis, can be repaired, built up, change shape easily (not that you would want to, but!).
Anyway, food for thaught!
cheers,
James
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5th September 2010, 12:41 PM #14
Hey guys thanks for the responses,
Dale if you read more on Fred's Linotte blog you'll see he not only had the boat washed up onto rocks not long after launch (snapped mooring rope in a storm) he then had it repaired over the winter. The following season he cracked the sole on a beach in Brittany when the tide went out and the boat settled on a rock, once again had it repaired over winter. I think his third season has gone off without a hitch! The whole story is better than a soapy!
Hey James thanks for the heads up on the carbon arc gouge, I figured there would have to be some technology out there that could do a foil profile. Any idea what kinda place would have a machine like that?
Darce I'll follow up the hobbyist blacksmith option,
I'm off now to take the family on boat building show and tell day – (fathers Day) so they can get a bead on what I've been upto.
Cheers
Mike
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5th September 2010, 04:58 PM #15
Hey James thanks for the heads up on the carbon arc gouge, I figured there would have to be some technology out there that could do a foil profile. Any idea what kinda place would have a machine like that?
Don't know if you could really call this stuff "technology", bit like calling a 20lb sledge hammer technology!
Carbon arc is a hand held operation that can remove large amounts of metal quickly, a skilled operator can gouge within about a mm of accuracy, a job like yours I would use flat carbons which would reduce the grinding to a minimum (hand held angle grinder). Any heavy fabrication workshop will have this gear; 500amp power source (welder), big air compressor, carbon arc handpiece/leads, heaps of earplugs and respirator filters! It's loud and dirty!!!!!!!!
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