Thread: Building a Waller TS540

Mike, the 16ft option came about as a consequence of a long correspondence with Tom Dunderdale at Campion Boats UK. He has a stitch and glue yawl called Apple, and there was something I liked about the hull form, especially a version he shows on his web site which was rigged as a cutter, with a bit of tumblehome on the transom. It had an honest workmanlike kind of shape with a subtle sheer curve.
I just love interesting lines and shapes and edges, so boats interest me as much for these things as they do for actually using them (crazy, I know). Well, there is a certain 14ft dayboat from across the water which is very popular, and which many people claim to be the perfect day boat, and it has certainly given a lot of pleasure to a lot of builders and sailors. From some angles (back 3/4 view) I like it a lot, but from other angles I feel like the Czar who, when hearing Tchaikowsky's 1st Piano Concerto (I think!) reputedly said 'It has too many notes..." Well, that boat's curves are a bit too sweet for my eye. Too much jam on the toast, too much cream in the bun. But that isn't meant as a criticism of the design or the designer, just a statement of my particular taste in shapes!
Tom's Apple cutter was about right, but he had a hull shape called 'Pearl', with broader beam and firmer bilges, but also stitch and glue. I wanted the extra beam to help carry a bigger sail- with some ballast, and room enough for a comfy deck to sit out on if the mood arose...So I asked him to draw it up as a ply clinker with a cutter rig, and he did- with various options. None have been built, and I have plan set #1 as far as I know.



I really like this design, but I don't know when will be the right time to build it.
I am also very fond of the GIS, which is just so approachable and usable, and might do more good as far as encouraging interest in future sailors and builders. It is, to my eye, absolutely a modern 'classic' and an important boat in the context of what's happening with ply and sailing.
First I really have to have some time using the boat I'm making, to see what would serve the family best.

Highjacking my own thread and thinking off topic did nothing to stimulate discussion, so I'll get back to the grisly details of the build.
But it begs the question; Is it worthwhile detailing the finishing and fitting out of the boat, or do we just let the thread slide till splashtime? It will all be new to me, but perhaps a bit routine for others.

The boat now has three coats of Norglass Marine Undercoat, and I've found in the cold conditions that the recommended dilution of turps has made it flow very easily, and dry quite quickly, but it remains too soft to sand for longer than it does in reasonable weather. That is a factor of the temperature, not the dilution.
I'm still persisting with roller/brush methods for the topsides. I don't believe spraying is all that difficult, it is just one of those operations that benefits from frequency of effort as much as anything. By the time I finished the hull I wasn't too bad, but I know that is not where my skills will start next time. They'll be right back at beginner level. I also resent the intrusive nature of all those nasty airborne particles that weavel their way through my beard and under the mask. Working with wood dust is bad enough already.
Anyway, the boats I admire most are the ones that have no gloss left on them at all! Comfy, knock-about boats. But there is always that pressure to make the new one look like a new Merc.
There is a Caledonia Yawl (from memory) featured in a Wooden Boat Publication called 'Small Boats'. It is almost flat grey, not a hint of brightwork or pretension. I really admire that. But grey can be depressing too.
It is utterly amazing how many hours can be logged doing stuff that doesn't actually qualify as 'a coat of paint' or a 'sanding the hull'- little corners that are rough, little dings that need filling, endless dust and crud that makes its way into the cabin and sticks to the paint etc.

Keep the updates coming Rob

I'm embarrassed to say there has been little progress well none actually on my boat. I have been making a table for some time now. I call it the mongrel table cause I'm sick of it and it has not turned out exactly how I'd like. I addition I am taking some time to reorganise my shed, finish making a tool cabinet and generally making room but I hope to be starting the strongback this week.

Cheers
Mike

Originally Posted by rob540

It is utterly amazing how many hours can be logged doing stuff that doesn't actually qualify as 'a coat of paint' or a 'sanding the hull'- little corners that are rough, little dings that need filling, endless dust and crud that makes its way into the cabin and sticks to the paint etc.

i spent many hours over the last four or five weeks of painting my yellowtail doing the same every time i would work on her i would see a little something that needed a little filling or sanding to get her perfect, some people still need convincing that the hull is wood and not fibreglass (luckily i didn't paint inside any of the lockers) but the problem with a nice paint job is every time i go down to her i spend 5 or 10 minutes looking her over and it hurts every time i see a scuff on the paint so the polish has to come out and it pains me to use her fishing haveing to continualy wash her down inside

this is one of my main reasons for building my next boat so i can use it as a work boat, but i know i'll do the same again when painting i just can't settle for anything less, i have to much pride in my finishing work.

Rob she must look nice now, do you have any pics of her with the three coats of primer on ?

That's an interesting point Richard, about convincing people it isn't FG, your boat is just such a perfect little package in so many ways, it must be hard to let it endure the 'rough and tumble' without worrying and fixing things. And I think you are right about having another working boat, if you can let your finishing standards go a little (!) Make it tough and workmanlike, leave a few dead fish on her decks for a week or so, then go home and polish the Yellowtail and treat her like an indoor dog- and then you'll have it both ways! That Yellowtail is simply gorgeous.

Mike, it's good that you are 'nesting' in preparation for Coquina. Sets up a mental attitude that will determine your approach to the build. I admire your restraint and the perspective that you bring to this stuff. I'm impetuous and hasty by comparison. I want it all now!
As to the table, is it design or finish that frustrates you?

Originally Posted by rob540

Mike, it's good that you are 'nesting' in preparation for Coquina. Sets up a mental attitude that will determine your approach to the build. As to the table, is it design or finish that frustrates you?

Mmm....."nesting" good term if I take any longer there's a good chance I'll hatch something and it won't be a boat. I had intended to build Coquina at a holiday house we have just finished, nice double garage just the thing but the Minister for Everything got wind of the plan and vetoed it. They can do that you know. So back to my cramped untidy workshop. I think if build the strongback on casters I may just pull it off.....everything else is on casters so why not the boat.

I admire your restraint and the perspective that you bring to this stuff. I'm impetuous and hasty by comparison. I want it all now!

I can identify completely I only give you the impression of being restrained. You should see my list of projects.

At the risk of completely sidetracking your thread Rob I'll explain and show you my dilemma. We needed a table for the new house and as it's near the sea a nautical style was called for the MFE actually said rustic but she will end up with ruff vaguely nautical.

Work commenced with a very rough idea some loose dimensions and somewhat doubtful materials Studleys reject flooring to be precise.

Much laminating ensued including the odd curse when I found that a pack of timber yielded limited lengths of usable wood. All this and my desire to try new techniques, why must I do that has meant the rustic ruff vaguely nautical experiment has ended up a bit of a dogs breakfast.

As you can see in the pic big mitres experiment 1,laid deck look with epoxy seams experiment 2. and a home brew wipe on poly finish over a less than well prepared surface experiment 3. mmmm and no joinery apart from the mitres experiment 4.

Mike, it looks as if you've tested a few ideas and tried for something out of the ordinary, and that's all for the good, however unhappy you are with the result. One of the problems with being 'handy' is we have the expectation created that we can always come up with a better, cheaper more tailor-made product than the commercial manufacturers, and sometimes we don't! But we can learn a lot trying.
The really uncomfortable bit there is the time between realizing you aren't happy, and the time that you feel released enough from disappointment to re-assign the object, refinish it or use the timber for something else. Or possibly realize that it's OK anyway, at least until the time comes to do something better.

For those of us that like to watch...paint dry, I enclose a few glamour shots of the third undercoat...







Lots of small areas remain rough, degenerate and out of control, but the broad sweep of big surfaces are slowly being tamed, despite cold weather and life getting in the way. Fortunately paint continues to dry when I'm not here...

Sunday I had a visit from my chandler (Roger from Four Winds Marine), who drove an hour to sit on the deck and figure out rigging and
fittings details, discuss the placement of dead-eyes and fair-leads, cars and travelers. (still no talk of brake pedal though). I really appreciated his efforts.

have you got used to her being white yet Rob

she is looking very nice, it's good to a boat in all stages of the construction.

have you sorted what your doing with your windows yet ?

What Richard said oh and BTW I think you missed a spot juuuust.........there

Thanks for your comments about the table you are right of course I am beginning to live with the result it's a pity furniture isn't like boats where the desire for perfection is not quite so over powering. Well I think I'm getting the hang of that concept for boats......maybe.

I remember reading Krenov on perfection so I looked it up again he observed there are mistakes of a human kind- "and something which you consciously did intend to do better, though not less human. It's a treacherous state to be in". That accurately describes the situation
Anyway enough about me did you decide on some spinnaker handling gear as well.

Richard, yes the windows have a rebate on the inside of the frame, and I've made curved cover strips that will be screwed over the joint. All bedded in goo of course. I'm happier with the white now that it's looking less drab. The whole boat has begun to look like a 'thing' instead of a collection of things- if you know what I mean.

Mike, Roger (chandler) is very kindly doing a bit of research to see if he can find some winches, maybe superseded models or something. He's got a few to show me next week, but I want a brake pedal before I get a kite! (and some airbags).

As to perfection, I'll have to stop myself waffling again on that one. I prefer to try for a sort of 'flow', where work happens almost explosively and intuitively, and possibly loosely rather than laboured, polished and precious. It means putting up with some rough progress, but training the senses to have things 'feel' right rather than being overly measured, accurate, cold and precise.
You can often tell a violin made by a talented amateur- often worked and slaved over for years in search of perfection, but without any artisan 'flair' or confidence or 'swing' in the curves. Some of the greatest violin makers were somewhat 'loose' with the tools, but it is very beautiful to see! (and hear, of course)
All of that is just an excuse for me not making a perfect boat, of course...but I'd rather make three less than perfect ones to find out how the lines work, than one perfect one and then die not knowing.

So much for 'flow'...Boy did I give myself an excess; three days (off 'proper work') alone to work 9 hours each day, hand sanding the undercoat, re-coating and more hand sanding (etc etc)...I wore through the top layers of skin on several fingers and they sting like hell. Didn't notice the time, didn't stop for lunch, but got a huge amount done, but you wouldn't see any difference at all if I posted photos!!
Decided to do it by hand with blocks and boards because the ROS was just too enthusiastic at all the rounded edges. Good weather helped too.

You've got me going to Rob, I'm taking next week off so I can get into it and get things to a stage where I'm actually building a boat instead of talking about it. Just hope the boss looses her list.

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

You've got me going to Rob, I'm taking next week off so I can get into it and get things to a stage where I'm actually building a boat instead of talking about it. Just hope the boss looses her list.

well just help her loose it

i did nearly all my sanding by hand, i'm sure i wore my fingers right through to the bone, but i was happier doing that then using the sander plus you get to rub you hands up and down her curves more