Thread: doing something to a TS16

Not you too, seems like eveytime I turn around somebody else is in receipt of more shed time what's going on.

Anyway cradle looks beaut and I'd do the mods.....you know you want to.

Make it into what you want and screw the class requirements, unless you plan to race her. There's nothing worse than a boat that is almost what you want. You have an opportunity, so go for it. It's also easier to get approval from the better half if you're making these modifications, so she'll be more comfortable. At least I've found this to be an easy way to "sell it" to her.

if you restore to class spec, then it won't do what you want and you will not be happy.

Modify to suit your requirements, stuff the class spec's, and you will have the boat YOU want.

That's why I had the Mangrovejack designed, it's a boat that suits my needs.

Jeff
vk4

Point taken gentlemen.

I keep thinking there must be a better way to achieve what I'm after: one that
doesn't involve back pain, or guess-work about sail plans, mast wall thickness,
tabernacle design, or upper-works aesthetics.

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

... there must be a better way to achieve what I'm after...

You could always sub contract out some of the more difficult bits to a professional. I hear there's a good one in Florida.......

Actually it sounds like a great retirement project - where would you take it for overnighters when finished?

Strong possibility of subbying the design work. Was trying to interest MIK,
but he seems to be busy. PAR will be my next port of call.

As for where to use it... 2 x Gulfs, Murray & Nelson Rivers, Coorong, and
sqillions of rivers and lakes and bays on the east coast.

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

Strong possibility of subbying the design work. Was trying to interest MIK,
but he seems to be busy. PAR will be my next port of call.

As for where to use it... 2 x Gulfs, Murray & Nelson Rivers, Coorong, and
sqillions of rivers and lakes and bays on the east coast.

Our ts16 is now on the water.We'll be taking her to Goolwa next year.Ours is standard,and set up for cruising.Our Association measurer told us that the rudder frame is no standard,being stainless not alluminium.He should know,,,he made it decades ago.I'd make the modifications.Hartley designed a beautiful hull.Use it how you want.It's still a ts16.

Greatest importance is more headroom. Got a crook neck & back & need to sit
up straight but cannot do so, even under my boat's max height cabin roof.
It would be nice to make the under foredeck space more accessible too.

Despite the complications & drawbacks of a split rig which PAR points out on
aliensurfa's thread, I'm still keen on a cat ketch or cat yawl rig: it gets the
compression post out of the middle of the cabin.
Getting rid of the C/B case as well, or at least the lifting tongue & tackle,
makes the small cabin a much more useable space - room for a double berth
instead of 2 singles.

Been doodling ideas - profiles anyway - of ways to raise the lid, ranging from
"just" lifting the roof 4 inches, to raising the sheer 4 inches, to rebuilding as a flush-deck.
Try to imagine a mainmast about 18" from the stem, and a mizzen either mid-cockpit
or on the transom...
Thoughts anyone?

I'm not sure of the 16's lines, but I'll bet there isn't enough volume forward to warrant a mast in the eyes of the boat (cat rig). You could eliminate the compression post with some deck beams and a ring frame. This will free up the inside of the boat a bit, as would an enclosed centerboard uphaul tackle. Something to look into though . . .

G'day Paul
I did consider a ring frame for the existing rig, especially in flush deck config.
Two of my goals are to eliminate standing rigging, and cure/reduce weather
helm off the wind. The low aspect rig with its long boom has a lot of turning
moment. That (to me) means a stayless mast and (probably) a balanced lug
rig. Looking for "put the stick in the hole" simplicity, or better yet, a tabernacle.

TS16 is a wide boat for its length - about 8' on the gunn'ls & 6' at WL.
Max WL beam is about amidships, max draft is a little further forward.
If I sit my 220lbs right up on the bow, I sink it by about 4-6", and a small
fraction of that if there's someone in the cockpit. I figure a cat ketch rig
will keep the mainsail small enough to keep the mast weight down despite
the stiff hull. The floor in these pics is pretty close to the waterline.
cheers
Alan

Allan,

I think that if you want to go the way of a CAT/KETCH rig, then a full raised fore deck as in pic4 will give you the best support for the mast set in the eyes of the boat.

You could look at a carbon fiber mast (a"la Norwalk Island Sharpies),.but they are expensive.

You may be better off being conservative , with your approach to this , with a back issue , you do not want to be man handling a 5/6mt mast by yourself, A tabernacle system which allows the mast to be lowered towards the bow, might be viable especially if designed to allow the mast to then slide back toward the stern for transport.
this could be set at the rear of the cabin bulkhead, with a shorter boom , and lower C of Effort, however you would need to look at position of the center board which would then be too far forward. You could put a dagger board down through he cockpit seats in line with the lower chine log .
This will clear the cabin sole, for your double bed.
I am not a boat designer , but this would solve several of your issues , but require some calculation to re-balance the boat to sail effectively.

I think this would suit a balanced lug sail . but you would not have any head sails.

Jeff
vk4

another doodle just for fun
The geometric centre of sail area is close to the designed sloop rig, so CLR can
stay more-or-less unchanged. Total sail area is nearly the same as the sloop so
only mild loss of performance at the lower end of things. Even the mainmast
stepped to the stem would be only a teensy bit longer than the standard roof-
stepped mast. Once all the stainless bits are stripped away, it wouldn't be
much heavier, even though thicker.
Neither sail is particularly large - lightweight hardware, & could afford to try a
couple of variations in polytarp before committing to dacron.

Then of course, there is the Core Sound 17 cat ketch to consider. Seems to be
a relatively vice-less style. Need to look at it closely regarding reefing. SA has
3 wind strengths - none, too much, & waaaay too much...

You'll hate having that mizzen in the middle of the cockpit, trust me and what's going to hold it up, a bridge deck?. A free standing mast in a tabernacle isn't practical without being massive. Loads on tabernacles are huge (really huge), so they all most always used a stayed rig to keep the weight of the assembly down. A huge, massive tabernacle in the eyes of the boat, is about the worst place for a big hunk of weight.

If you put a good bit more roof crown in the raised deck version, you would have a more pleasing and aerodynamic way about her.

You don't have much choice in regard to sail plans. What ever you dream up will have to sit, with a appropriate amount of lead, over the fixed appendages. You could move the CLP aft a wee bit (maybe a degree or two) with a substantial skeg and redesigned rudder, if necessary. I'd save this for weather helm issues, which would be likely with a divided rig and no headsails.

G'day Paul
Actually, yes, a bridge deck. Under which the portapotti is to be stowed.
My last TS16 was set up like that & it worked well. (minus the mid cockpit mast).
Anyway, I'll take that as a 'no' vote on altering the rig, and especially on
tabernacles.
Out of curiosity, have you seen the contraptions a couple of blokes here in
Sth Oz came up with for Bruce Kirby's NIS boats? see Straydog Boatworks ,
click Products in the menu & scroll down.
Light, unobtrusive, & waaay out of my price range...
cheers
Alan