Thread: I NEED EXPERT ADVICE on wooden sailing boat!

Just to let everybody know. We had today an inspection from the inside of the boat by the surveyor.

He found no rot at all on the inside. The previous time I dried the bilge completely, but we did see more water back in again. So we suspect some water coming in from in between the wooden hull and keel via the keel bolts. It was so minor, that the surveyor did not see this as a problem.

By looking at the gabs between the planks in the hull above the waterline, which allow water to come through during sailing (not much but still al little bit, he suspected that this could be the reason why the previous owner had put fibre glass sheeting on the hull under the waterline.

Overall from what was possible to see on the inside, he recommended me not to do too much work on the boat, only the things which needs to be done urgently (and that are only a few small items) and just start having fun with it.

btw; the wooden mast was slightly bending to port side and not straight anymore, but only slightly.

We will have a check on the outside of the hull probably this coming weekend.

Udo

The surveyor told me that we need, in order to get a full picture of the boat, take it out of the water.

I decided to buy the boat, but of course on the condition that the boat is described as per the advertisement.

Description of the boat in the advert:
The boat is completely dry (from underneath) because of the fibre glass sheeting.

The owner told me verbally:
Only water coming in via the hull above the waterline and rain water via the cockpit

However, I found out that water is coming from underneath as well, probably from in between the keel and the wooden hull via the keel bolts.

If I find out any more (big) problems (not mentioned by the owner) when the boat is out of the water, I definitely would re-consider.

The owner asked me if I want to get the boat out of the water for to evaluate what work needs to be done, or, if it's for to re-consider buying it at all. If it's for re-consideration, he told me that he was going to put it back on the market. btw: The advert was never taken away in the first place, I spend a lot of time to inspect to boat several times and spend money on the surveyor, the pressure on top of it makes me extremely uncomfortable.

So, I am close to walking away.

Originally Posted by udo

The surveyor told me that we need, in order to get a full picture of the boat, take it out of the water.

I decided to buy the boat, but of course on the condition that the boat is described as per the advertisement.

Description of the boat in the advert:
The boat is completely dry (from underneath) because of the fibre glass sheeting.

The owner told me verbally:
Only water coming in via the hull above the waterline and rain water via the cockpit

However, I found out that water is coming from underneath as well, probably from in between the keel and the wooden hull via the keel bolts.

If I find out any more (big) problems (not mentioned by the owner) when the boat is out of the water, I definitely would re-consider.

The owner asked me if I want to get the boat out of the water for to evaluate what work needs to be done, or, if it's for to re-consider buying it at all. If it's for re-consideration, he told me that he was going to put it back on the market. btw: The advert was never taken away in the first place, I spend a lot of time to inspect to boat several times and spend money on the surveyor, the pressure on top of it makes me extremely uncomfortable.

So, I am close to walking away.

I'd pay to slip and complete a full survey if I were you despite what the owner says. If he puts it back on the market he may well save you a lot of grief in the long run.

I hope it surveys well she does look nice.

Cheers

Again, never believe what an owner has to say, he's trying to sell a boat, which means he'll "color" his remarks in a favorable hue. It's a bit like believing what grand parents say about their grandkids. You know it's tarnished at the very least.

Secondly, make sure the surveyor knows what you want. Many surveyors will provide you with exactly what you pay for; "a favorable survey", because this is what you've paid for. It's important for you to instruct them to preform an "evaluation for repair and restoration", not just a "pre-purchase survey".

Originally Posted by PAR

Secondly, make sure the surveyor knows what you want. Many surveyors will provide you with exactly what you pay for; "a favorable survey", because this is what you've paid for. It's important for you to instruct them to preform an "evaluation for repair and restoration", not just a "pre-purchase survey".

PAR: That's a very good point, But the surveyor knows, since I told him, that I do not want to have a cheap boat which turns within 1 and 5 years into an extremely expensive purchase. That's why we do the test in the first place: I want to make sure it's a healthy boat otherwise I would walk away.

OK, what we did find out is:

1. From the inside NO woodrot at all.
2. Planks fittings to the rib's are also really OK
3. Inspection on the outside not done yet.


4. But, to get the hull above the waterline also water tight, it looks like that corking will not be sufficient and the seems need to be cut open with a saw and pieces of spline wood needs to be glued in. That will be a massive job for sure.

Question: Will the life-span of the boat be influenced a lot if we always get some water in via the hull above the waterline, or will it be only inconvenient?

(This of course under the condition that my surveyor is not finding any other major problems on the outside of the hull and the boat is really healthy on all major points)

That's one of the very last questions I guess,

Udo

If your surveyor thinks she needs to be "spined" or "wedge seamed" then the grip the 'glass work has on the bottom planks will be tested, likely ruining the bond it has.

When you caulk a boat, you drive material into the seams which physically makes a mechanical lock, along the edges of each plank. Each plank is driven into its neighbor from the pressure of the caulking process and as the planks "take up" moisture. This is what makes the system work. Each plank pushes against the next from keel to sheer strake, making a rigid, water tight structure.

Putting spines into the boat isn't an easy job, nor is it an inexpensive job if you farm it out (have some one do it). I think the 'glass sheathing will repeatedly come back and haunt nearly every issue the planking has in the future, until it's removed. You certainly can't caulk the boat and expect the sheathing to like it. Which is probably the very reason that the boat needs to be caulked, because someone, likely a professional has told the current owner, they can't guarantee what will happen to all those 'glassed over bottom planks, once they tighten the topside seams with new caulk. Talk about "damned if you do and damned if you don't". The more I hear, the more inclined I am to say walk away and find another. In the current economic climate, there are thousands of good deals on yachts.

Originally Posted by PAR

If your surveyor thinks she needs to be "spined" or "wedge seamed" then the grip the 'glass work has on the bottom planks will be tested, likely ruining the bond it has.

The surveyor is not 100% sure, till he has seen and inspected the outside completely.

But what is sure that:

1 Water comes in via the seems between the planks in the hull above the waterline.
2. Rain water comes in via the cockpit.
3. The hull under the waterline is leaking, probably via the area in between the keel and the wooden hull via the keel bolts.

But no wood rot so far seen and heard from the inside
Plank fittings to the Rib's also seem to be OK

Can easily imagine that splining is a very big job!

Udo

- Topsides leaking
- Cockpit leaking
- Leaks under the LWL, location unknown for the most part, though possible suspects at keel bolts
- Topsides need caulking, may need spines too
- Can't inspect the condition of the bottom planking from the outside because of the 'glass
- Caulking topside seams will stress, if not shear the 'glass from the bottom planks

Anything else?

I would like to thank everyone for contributing to this thread!

It's great to hear all opinions and I learned a lot in a very short time.

After listening to all opinions + having an expert on site, I decided the risk is too high and therefore, with regret, notified the seller that I am not going to buy it.

Best regards to all of you,

Udo

Hello everybody,


I have not given up in the hunt for wooden classics,
Inspected another one.
When interested, have a look in the new thread:
Posted a new image gallery.

here is the link to the new thread:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/ne...4/#post1184184

best regards,

Udo