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  1. #16
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Hartley TS 14 Restoration Advice

    Thanks again for all the helpful advice. I'm going to heed what you guys have said and do all the work in the winter, the leak really isn't a major problem at this stage and it would be good to get some experience sailing her. I'm actually going to a learn to sail course in early January so that's a good start.

    The discussion you guys have been having around innovative ways to make use of the limited space is interesting. Going away for a weekend and overnighting is ultimately going to be a requirement in the long run. Wether it's feasible with this boat I'm not sure yet, some time on the water will make up my mind I guess.

    I'm sure I'll get a stern talking to for even suggesting this, but what would be the implications of extending the cabin from the original design, maybe another foot of cabin space or more? Probably an unusable cockpit I suppose and an unstable boat...

    Can't hurt to ask.

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Melbourne
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    Default

    I thought about extending the cabin aft too, to give more interior room, and the same thing as discussed earlier applies. If you're gonna spend a fair bit of time inside it (the cabin), then go for it, but otherwise it's a space you just can't use any other way. On this boat, it's distinctly coffin-like, so it will just be a longer coffin-like structure.

    Regarding stability and cockpit; It'll make having any more than 2 people on board tricky, unless they sit in the cabin the whole way. Also, it will make it tougher to control the forward sail lines and mainsail controls. It shouldn't mess with stability too much, but will present more area to catch wind, so it's likely to heel more in a blow, and affect how it rounds up into or away from the wind in ways I'm not knowledgeable enough to speculate on.

  4. #18
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    Default Re: Hartley TS 14 Restoration Advice

    Just had another look at those photos you sent through with the triangle pop up section on the cabin roof. To my eye it looks like he has extended the cabin by quite a bit. The cockpit looks pretty damn small.

    I too am mulling through ways to try and make the accommodation extendable without turning the boat into a horrible eyesore, not an easy task.

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Aberfoyle Park SA
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    61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colfa View Post
    I intend to turn the boat over, fix the leak, repaint the hull, flip it back and then build the cuddy.
    Unless my imagining of the leak is wrong...
    If TS14s are the same as 16s & 18s, the centre case is traditional construction,
    and just sits on the keelson in a bedding compound, secured by bolts up from below.
    Leaks are normally either through that joint or the pivot bolt. So I'm surprised you
    expect to be able to fix the leak from outside. From outside the boat, there is
    just a slot cut in the keel & keelson. All that part should be solid timber.
    More likely you'd fix the leak from the inside by lifting the case & re-bedding it?

    As for extending the cabin... If you are tall, the biggest bugbear will likely be height.
    It is for me anyway. With the TS14, it may be best to run with a dry stowage
    cuddy, and a full cockpit tent for overnighting. A long fixed cabin will push crew
    weight right aft under way, pushing her bum down & causing lots of drag.

    As for the seams... I take the approach that if something ain't broke, don't fix it.
    Would only be considering it if they were opening up (cracks in the paint / rot).
    There's a good chance they were glassed and faired during build anyway.

    cheers

  6. #20
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    Default Re: Hartley TS 14 Restoration Advice

    Hey boat,

    I'm basing it on these instructions http://www.australianhartleyts16.org...bd%20Leaks.pdf

    It recommends that you stop the leak from outside as if water can still penetrate it will cause rot?

    Col

  7. #21
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    Jun 2007
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    Aberfoyle Park SA
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    Ok. I understand now.
    Have to make sure the glass/epoxy goes well up beyond the seam to ensure
    water doesn't get around it.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
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    2,270

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    There are two approaches to fixing these types of centerboard cases: make it a part of the structure, forever or a removable/repairable assembly.

    If it's to be removable, then unbolt and unscrew the bed log fasteners, yank the case off, clean all faying surfaces and reinstall with fresh bedding. A cute old timer trick is to apply a cotton string around the perimeter of the faying surfaces. When the bedding gives a little and lets in water, the cotton string will swell up and seal the gap. This is a good trick for garboards too, applying the string in the bottom of the rabbit.

    If you're looking to stop the leak forever, then the case assembly needs to be "married" to the keel. Remove the case and clean the surfaces back to raw wood. Drill out and bond the fastener holes with thickened epoxy and then bond the case logs to the keel. Insert the fasteners, bonding as you go, then round over the log edges and fillet them to the case sides. Apply another fillet at the keel/planking interface. Cover the whole shooting match with at least 3 layers of 12 ounce biax, insuring generous over laps to the planking and case sides. This marries the case to the keel and the planking. Removal will be very difficult, though is possible in the event of a necessary repair. It's also wise to carry the "tabbing" from the outside into the case, again with biax tape. The result wiull not leak, but also means you can't easily remove it.

  9. #23
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Hartley TS 14 Restoration Advice

    Thanks par,

    I think I'll have a crack at making it a permanent part of the structure when i tape and paint the hull during winter.

    I made some minor repairs today and put all the decks back in so it's ready to launch on the water. I'll get some sailing time in over the next few months while the weather's good and hopefully will be a bit better informed about what modifications I want to make if any.

    This really is an excellent forum with great advice. I'm still leaning toward building the cabin but we'll have to wait and see if a summer on the water makes me see sense. )

    Have a good Christmas everyone!!

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Eustis, FL, USA
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    I use to have a 22' Catalina 22 type of boat. It was atypical for it's size and I even used a Catalina 22 mainsail. After owning it for years (many), I hacked the cabin off the boat with a reciprocating saw. It now is a 23' (I lengthened it a bit) ketch with an open cockpit over 10' long. It has seat boxes down each side with comfortable seat back angles and cushions. I never used the cabin, the boat was just a big, fat daysailor for the most part. The rare occasions the cabin was used, was primarily as a storm shelter or a private place for her to pee. We've dive into it, when a thunder storm rolled through, but that's about it. Now it has a small canvas dodger that can be rigged aft of the foredeck, where a porta-pottie lives. I can just pee over the side, but she has some aiming issues and prefers a can to sit on. I could arrange a cockpit tent, but haven't bothered yet. The boat now is much more practical and has twice the cockpit space for lounging and carrying coolers full of beer. The rig change to a ketch has a 30" (762 mm) long bow sprit and more hoist options, so folks have some strings to fool with underway. I'm still using the Catalina 22 mainsail, though it's been cut down a bit. This is an "evolution" on this particular boat to suit my needs, which is the whole point of this post. I'm not sure what your climate is like, but mine is sub tropical making for hot cabin conditions, except in winter. I've repeatedly found a boom tent a much better shelter in all but a hurricane. Better ventilation, a whole bunch lighter, no additional windage when it's stowed and offers a huge cockpit.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
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    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by b.o.a.t. View Post

    Making a bigger cabin look like anything other than a home-bodgy is a complete
    mongrel of a job......
    Do you think so?

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Aberfoyle Park SA
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    by my count, about 3x TS16s were sacrificed to produce that.
    Including the one it sits upon.
    And a Lazy E.
    It is obviously a darned effective mod.
    Its aesthetics are not at all to my taste....

    On the other hand, my employer tells me I'm getting the yo-heave-ho come May.
    And a sea-to-source-to-sea trip on the Murray needs some comfort...

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Gippsland Victoria Australia
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    21

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    Have to agree with the above posts. only you will know what you're going to need in a boat and the only way to find out is to use it. if you find a small leak annoys you, a quick and nasty repair in december should keep you on the water until june (southern hemisphere). when you can do a proper job of it. ive sailed a kitty cat for 18 months with gaffer tape over a couple of (small) holes - no probs.

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