Thread: Hartley TS 14 Restoration Advice

There's a few approaches you can take. One is to fix what you got with similar techniques, which you've yet to fully identify. This is likely the cheapest, though may not be the most durable in the long term.

Next would be to strip the paint and primer off the seams (back to bare wood), then tape the seams with cloth, set in epoxy, fair and paint her up again. This will really seal her up, but the rest of the planking will still be just painted. A little more cost and effort, but not too bad really.

Lastly would be to remove all the paint from the hull (media blast, chemicals, etc.), epoxy encapsulate, sheath, then fair and paint. This is a bigger job, but is also the best way to insure your work from moisture, rot, etc.

Most of these decisions depend on skill sets, tools, how much you want to put into it as far as time and materials and how long you'd like it to last.

Epoxy should only be applied to raw wood as a coating or adhesive. It can be applied to itself (subsequent coats) or over other adhesives and some laminates, but over paint isn't usually a very wise idea.

Post some photos so we can see the condition and the build. You may have just a few things to do and can get out on the water quickly. On the other hand you also may have to strip delaminated polyester sheathing and sort out other issues first. It's difficult to tell without some reference images.

Welcome to the forum . . .

Thanks very much for the warm welcome and the fantastic advice. It didn't really occur to me that I could just do the seams. I'll probably go the whole hog though, this is meant to be a learning experience for me after all...

I'll attach some photos of my project shortly!

Some photos

Attachment 191162



Attachment 191163



Attachment 191165

COLFA,

The hull looks sound and the interior in good condition.

I would go with PAR'S suggestions, for stripping you can use Chemical strippers, blasting with media, or abrasives.

If using a chemical stripper, there is a citrus based stripper I believe , that is less dangerous to use, and if using abrasives I suggest you aquire a SANDER POLISHER, and use quick strip discs(also called strip-it discs).
These are a scourer type material with abrasive bonded into the mesh. they are very effective and donot damage the timber , but there will be a large qty of dust.

Good luck.

Jeff

Hi mate,

I'm currently building a Ts16 from scratch, and I went the full epoxy-coat the bottom with fibreglass all the way up to the sheer.

If I was inheriting a sound boat, without other real issues. I'd be leaving it fairly well as it is, but probably sanding back the chines and glassing them with fibreglass tape. The full strip, sheathe, coat and repaint is a significant amount of effort. It took me a rough month and a half to do all the prep and extra tasks required, where just painting it would have taken a week at most - and I had nothing to strip off in the first place.

That's just my opinion, and I am glad that I sheathed mine, but I found myself extremely unhappy about the amount of time and money it required. The TS 14 hull will likely use about 4L of epoxy + 16m of fibreglass cloth (assuming 60cm wide on the roll as is common), which for me was close to 300 bucks to sheathe properly - plus paints.

Good luck with the project, and PAR's advice is good. There's really 3 options:

1) Leave it alone, it's doing ok already

2) Spend a moderate amount of time and effort to more or less ensure decent longevity assuming you touch up paint when it gets a ding and otherwise make sure it dries out.

3) Go all out, spend a sizable amount (considering boat value) of time and effort for peace of mind and satisfaction, as well as the knowledge of a job properly done.

Colfa, you can clean the paint off the chines and centerline seams and apply tape to seal these areas up good. This will also give you a small taste of the process. You can fair in the tape and prep for paint or continue the process, sheathing the rest of the exterior, which is a much bigger job.

Also, launch the boat and try her without the bulk and windage of the cabin. You have a nice big play pen without it and she'll sail better not carrying the burden of it too. You may find you use it as a day boat, not the weekend cruiser she can be with a cabin. Tackle the cabin if you have to, but decide if you really need to first, with practical use.

I agree with PAR,with the center board case and the mast support post in the cabin area , you loose cockpit space and gain very little , a covered area that is not large enough to sit in , alone sleep in,.

It makes better sense to design and make a removable canvas cabin tent, possibly in 2 pieces 1 part a small cuddy and the 2nd to attach to it which will then cover most of the cockpit , this would be a lighter and versatile alternative,.

Jeff

Thanks guys,

I think I'll settle for taping the seams and repainting the hull.

All very good points regarding the cuddy. I was already questioning the value of the cabin after measuring it off the plans and realising how small it really is.

I'm not much of a sailor so this is more of a learning project for me to crawl before I walk with boat building.

So the question I'm throwing open to the group is what else would you do with it besides the addition of the cuddy? Any cool ideas?

Ill get a taste of epoxy, fibreglass and paint from redoing the hull but I need to follow that up with something that covers the other skills, lofting, cutting, stitch and glue etc.

As always your ideas and advice is greatly appreciated.

I think you've settled on a good compromise.

I'm just about to build the cabin structure on the 16 I'm building at the moment and looking at it thinking... Hmmmmmm. that really is a nice, large, open cockpit isn't it...I'm building the cabin on the 16 as it's just large enough to consider as a sleeping/out of the weather overnight space, and that's how I plan to use it.

So, regarding this boat, I wouldn't build the cabin either unless you plan to camp in it. Otherwise, it won't really get you many benefits, and will cost you in many more ways. If you want it for the look, or you do plan to squeeze in overnight, then sure - go for it.

Honestly, the TS series of boats are fine and able just how they are, and don't really need changing. There's always improvements and compromises, but you've gotta be sure the changes you make are going to improve the use of the boat for you. Go sailing for a while in it, check it out, and see what you feel like it needs/is lacking in in terms of interior. You'll not really be able to noticably change the way it sails, I'd say.

If you wanted to fiddle with the insides, you could build in some locker fronts under the side benches that are more or less watertight, with front hatches, to store gear & etc in so it won't get wet from the bilge, which will teach you some scribing from hull shapes, filleting, epoxying, and cutting to size. I'm assuming there are plywood floors that you've taken out? If there is, great, if not then you'll be needing to make them anyway!

If you want to change it just for the experience my advice would be to leave it be, sail it, tailor it to your purposes, and build something else from beginning to end. A piece of advice given to me was - "By the time you're done you'll have learned every skill you need (assuming you read, research and teach yourself as you go) and have the new build as well, rather than spending cash and time on something that you didn't need to change anyway." That said, I'm building the TS16 before my "dream boat" to learn the skills, but you could easily do the same with a canoe, or a small tender, or the larger boat of your wishes, whatever takes your fancy.

In order to know what to change, you have to use it. Every sailor develops their own wish list as they use boats. You really haven't any idea what the boat needs or what you might want in it yet, so fix it, paint it and get some sea time in 'er. After a year or two, your list of things to fix and change, will be substantial enough to warrant yanking stuff off and moving things around, this time though, it'll be experienced based, not speculative.

Agree with PAR.
I have my second TS16, upon which I am about to perform major surgery.
But am doing so out of experience with my first, and in full understanding of
the scale of the project I am making for myself. I definitely won't be doing the
full sheathing thing!!

Deleting the cabin altogether & replacing with a cockpit tent is one of the
options under consideration to achieve full sitting head-room. The more I
thinks about it, the better it looks. Currently I sit on the low bunks with my
knees up around my ears & a crick in my neck from ducking under the low roof.
The cabin roof on the TS14 is even lower again.
An open boat has infinite headroom, allowing 'proper' seat height. Have a look
at web pages featuring John Welsford's Navigator & Houdini designs for what
can be achieved in cockpit tents.

Hey Boat,

Have you considered doing this to it:

http://hartley-ts.com.au/Gallery/Ima...d-00145edc1a86

I am seriously considering the option. That portion of the cabin roof doesn't take any load strains (or at least, very minimal), and doesn't add overmuch to rigidity. I think it'd be a nice (if fiddly) way to improve headroom at anchor. He's made a canvas tent-flap that goes around the outside to screen it off (with windows), and some triangular covering boards for the sides too!

http://hartley-ts.com.au/Gallery/Ima...d-00145edc1a86

http://hartley-ts.com.au/Gallery/Ima...d-00145edc1a86

Thoughts? I sort-of, kind-of am considering doing this to my currently under construction cabin roof.

Thanks Asrainox
Have seen those pics & am considering a variation.
They are of a TS18, which already has sufficient seated head-room.
When seated, one's head goes into the outside cabin angles so they need to
be raised as well.

One idea is to cut the entire roof off & make it lift, a bit like a Jayco camper trailer.
Another is to just insert a 100mm spacer in the walls & fix the roof back onto that.
My knees would still be up around my ears, but at least I could sit with straight back & neck.

Making a bigger cabin look like anything other than a home-bodgy is a complete
mongrel of a job. Lost count of the sketches I've drawn & re-drawn. The
revised sail-plan is no probs, but the TS is a low-profile hull, and an enlarged
cabin looks out-of-place to my eye. That is until it becomes a full-sized displacement
power cruiser cabin anyway (which the hull is quite capable of being). I have read
of another TS16 owner raising the entire sheer line to balance it out, and the result
looked good. That's a bigger job that i want to tackle, and I'd lose the lovely laminated
gunwales the previous owner made.

So deleting the cabin completely in favour of a bimini & cockpit tent is a serious option.
Welsford's Houdini & Navigator interiors have a lot to commend them, as does the
Core Sound 17. Biggest down-side is loss of privacy for the dunny.

Anyway, enough about my boat - this thread is about Colfa's TS14.
Hopefully there'll be something in my ramblings which he(?) finds useful.

What I would do if I was you. So this is just my personal opinion is go sailing. If the leak gets too large then repair. Or if you get an opportunity to dry the boat do a small temporary repair just on the centreboard case.

Too many boats get pulled/stripped down with the hope of turning then into something they are not and never survive the process.

Having sailed TS of various sorts in various conditions and having sailed for over 50 years you will get more water over the side than from the leak.

So my advice is go sailing all summer and small repair or modify(maybe) over winter.