Thread: Languishing in Luxury

Stop it Bob you are making us jealous down here.

Pro boat builders have said to me on more than one occasion you use what you can get.

That is to say one must be conscious of the stuffs properties such as durability, weight, bending fixing and of course strength qualities but use what is generally available and preferably local. Hence I think designers tend to specify species common to their market rather than the properties which is especially helpful for we amateurs.
On the other hand perhaps specifying a species merely indicates the properties a builder should consider. where is a designer when you need em.

Anyway what to use in a particular application I find is a constant and sometimes baffling puzzle and I haven't even mentioned aesthetics.

Use this > The Wood Explorer Database. < and compare any substitutions you might have. There are other services and sources for data on the physical properties of different species, so don't let this be your only rallying point.

Generally, it's expected that some substitutions will be necessary, particularly in the world wide market.

Be careful, because it's easy to abuse this aspect. For example, Western red cedar is stronger bent, slightly heavier, slightly harder, tolerates impact slightly better, has a fair bit better crush strength and is quite a bit stiffer then northern white. Physically, they have very similar movement attributes.

Now, I use white cedar down here quite a bit, when I can get it. It's limited in structural uses for larger craft, but in small craft is a desirable species.

You should have lots of Douglas fir up there, which will also make the Auzzies jealous, but they also have some nice hardwoods, that we can only dream of. Most of your softwood needs could be handled with Douglas fir.


The best rule of thumb is follow the plans. It's also best to pick a living designer like Mik, as he's available for questions, like species substitutions. Old plans are great and usually a good deal, right up to the point where you have a question.

I have a client in northern, eastern Europe building one of my schooners. You have no idea the pain I've gone through, trying to find suitable substitutes in a land where every tree has been harvested. I'm not kidding, he lives a few hundred miles from the artic circle.

In our new world wide community, it's a little more difficult, but resources for this sort of information have expanded a great deal in the last decade, making it easier.

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Stop it Bob you are making us jealous down here.

Pro boat builders have said to me on more than one occasion you use what you can get.

That is to say one must be conscious of the stuffs properties such as durability, weight, bending fixing and of course strength qualities but use what is generally available and preferably local. Hence I think designers tend to specify species common to their market rather than the properties which is especially helpful for we amateurs.
On the other hand perhaps specifying a species merely indicates the properties a builder should consider. where is a designer when you need em.

Anyway what to use in a particular application I find is a constant and sometimes baffling puzzle and I haven't even mentioned aesthetics.

Thanks m2c. I like your idea that the species specification can be read as something of a properties signifier. I think, inadvertently, that's how I'm understanding it. I'm speculating, too, that even in a particular wood's list of properties, the designer is prioritizing properties or signaling a primary property.

But I can see where this would be an error-prone area for amateurs. For example, how important can the cedar family's natural rot resistance be when the builder is swaddling (swabbling?) the wood with synthetic products. I don't know the answer to that.

bob

Originally Posted by PAR

Use this > The Wood Explorer Database. < and compare any substitutions you might have. There are other services and sources for data on the physical properties of different species, so don't let this be your only rallying point.

Generally, it's expected that some substitutions will be necessary, particularly in the world wide market.

Be careful, because it's easy to abuse this aspect. For example, Western red cedar is stronger bent, slightly heavier, slightly harder, tolerates impact slightly better, has a fair bit better crush strength and is quite a bit stiffer then northern white. Physically, they have very similar movement attributes.

Now, I use white cedar down here quite a bit, when I can get it. It's limited in structural uses for larger craft, but in small craft is a desirable species.

You should have lots of Douglas fir up there, which will also make the Auzzies jealous, but they also have some nice hardwoods, that we can only dream of. Most of your softwood needs could be handled with Douglas fir.


The best rule of thumb is follow the plans. It's also best to pick a living designer like Mik, as he's available for questions, like species substitutions. Old plans are great and usually a good deal, right up to the point where you have a question.

I have a client in northern, eastern Europe building one of my schooners. You have no idea the pain I've gone through, trying to find suitable substitutes in a land where every tree has been harvested. I'm not kidding, he lives a few hundred miles from the artic circle.

In our new world wide community, it's a little more difficult, but resources for this sort of information have expanded a great deal in the last decade, making it easier.

Thanks for link, PAR. The list of properties you set out looks useful, of course, but perhaps in some ways it's link sheet music in the hands of a non-musician. This is only to point to an appreciation for the nuances of your craft and the necessary skill and knowledge to study the wood options and make the judgment call or to accept a particular (or peculiar) compromise.

Your compare/contrast of Northern White Cedar and Western Red Cedar properties is helpful because it provides a heuristic or conceptual framing of a typical wood selection question.

Douglas Fir would be a Canadian west coast species, not east coast, although as Canadians go, we ship everything everywhere cross-country without much fuss. I know a fellow two towns over who collects junk and he's got an impressive stash of used, 100 year-old Douglas Fir salvaged from the demolition of an old armed forces building.

bob

Originally Posted by BobAshley

But I can see where this would be an error-prone area for amateurs. For example, how important can the cedar family's natural rot resistance be when the builder is swaddling (swabbling?) the wood with synthetic products. I don't know the answer to that.

Ah now that does raise a whole different set of questions although once epoxy encapsulated generally rot resistance is a non issue.

However for example sole boards.......ideally non slip i.e. left uncoated and perhaps just oiled which highlights your query about cedar. I'm grappling with what to use right now, which cedar and what coating if any.

Then of course sole boards can rightly be deemed as expendable/replaceable so what am I worried about.

Fun isn't it.