Thread: when is a leaking timber boat ok?

Hi Razgo - just a guess but are you sure it is outlet from a bilge pump ? Seems to me that the boat would not ride as well in the water if it had such a huge amount in it's bilge. Could it be someone's lame attempt at plumbing a motor water pump ?

Originally Posted by bagman

Hi Razgo - just a guess but are you sure it is outlet from a bilge pump ? Seems to me that the boat would not ride as well in the water if it had such a huge amount in it's bilge. Could it be someone's lame attempt at plumbing a motor water pump ?

That was my first thought, though with that flow of water they could cool a nuclear reactor

Maybe the missus was having a shower in the en-suite

Richard

well nothing for sure 100% but based on what i know about old timber boats the planks shrink quite a but in summer the longer it is left out of water.

I know someone who put his 28' timber boat back in teh marina after a few months out of water and it almost sank if it wasn't for a land based patrol driven pump sucking the water out continuously for about 24 hrs. I think it took about a week or 2 before the boards swelled up with water and sealed everything tight and it never leaked again.

Based on that and the fact it looks like it has just been painted i am guessing it timber shrinkage.

But for mine i don't think its timber shrinkage but probably a Small gap in teh diagonal plank opening up. I found where i think its coming in.

But maybe you are right? As it is now moored on a swing mooring at vic point. i didn't notice water coming out the side but didn't have a close look either.

Where the water is coming out is typically where the bilge would be pumping water out too.

russ

I reckon you're right when you suggest she's been out of the water for a bit and was still leaking as a result. Now the timbers have swelled and plugged the gaps and she's sound again. I've heard lots of stories about boats going back into the water and nearly sinking (most stories probably exagerated but you get the drift).

Twas certainly an impressive spout of water.

Richard

Originally Posted by Razgo

I took this video this morning at vic point http://www.youtube.com/AussieCommuni.../0/U5rYnXbfpXw

Looking at the video it seems to me it has been just painted and perhaps just came from samsons marina around the corner.

So i am thinking it was on hardstand for a while and the timber hasn't soaked up yet to close any gaps.

Having said that i often worry about my 30' timber boat that has what appears to be some separation occurring in my double diagonal plank hull.

As far as i know my bilge pump comes on maybe once ever 24hrs or maybe even longer to empty it.

Its a very slow leak and the bilge empties it when there is maybe 60 ltrs of water at a guess. about 6 buckets worth.

I know the only true way to see whats going on is to dry it out on a hard stand and strip it back to bare timber to see whats happening.

otherwise i think i can only poke and prod the hul floor from the inside to find any soft spots?

But then i see a boat like that in my =video and think WOW mine leaks NOTHING like that! and they don't seem too worried! lol

different story if my hull was epoxy sealed and was ply and i would certainly worry then.

Also a glimpse of my boat is on the swing mooring in the background(dark blue covers) as this boat passes it by at coochie.

russ

There are two time honoured ways. Get the interior of the boat really dry and then sit and wait for water to appear.

Next time you slip the boat watch the boat carefully for drips and wet spots shortly after getting it out of the water.

They don't cover every possibility, but they have the advantage of no extra cost beyond the normal.

Best wishes
Michael

yep, thats what i did when i slipped it in June this year. I noted where the leaking water is coming in from.

I guess what i am saying is there is no way to tell if the problem is more extensive or not without at least trying to patch where i know its leaking.

you talk to a boat builder and they automatically say strip it, dry it then epoxy it or replace the entire bottom.

I am trying to figure out a way to patch a wet location whilst its in the water and this may not be possible?

russ

PS
should be berthed at manly marina this Wednesday weather permitting. So i will take a closer look and video it to explain it a whole lot better.

russ

Judging by the location of the outlet it may well be an outflow from a refigeration condenser, if the engime is of a large 4 cyl or 6 cyl the outflow doesn't appear to be extreme. It is common practice to locate outflows of condnesers and engine heat exchangers in a location that is easy to see and convieniant to the item. I have fitted several in locations similar to the one shown in the video and usually at the clients request.

Hi Kev, yep i agree.

Also i have finally taken a video of where my small leak is. just uploading it now to youtube but its going very slow at only 21% so far. so it might be another hour at this rate.

once you see th evideo i think some of yo might be able to offer advice on repair whilst in water.

Also the timber taps soundly and i believe there to be no sign of softness/rot where the leak is.

will up date soon with video results.

Ok, here is the vid [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1BtFTHUJ_s"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

russ

Yup, that's a leak (see, I can tell these things, I must be getting better)

What's your question Russ? Is it 'should I be concerned' or is it 'what can I do about it' or is it 'should I try to do something' or are you just sharing something interesting that'll be fixed one day?

Richard

It's not possible to "patch a wet location" on a carvel build, while in the water. Seams have to be addressed from the outside. Any attempts to "caulk" from the inside will wedge open seams further down the line and and you'll have more leaks.

Epoxy and carvel planking don't mix. The suggestions of new bottom planks may be valid. You wouldn't be the first owner praying to avoid replacing bottom planks. I might suggest that garboards need to be replaced more often then other planks, which looks like it could solve you little leaking.

If you can feel the plank moving as you press on and around that seam, the fasteners are loose. A new caulk job will fix this, but not for long (a season maybe). Of course refastening is another owner prayer session. The leak(s) don't look very bad, can your pumps keep up untill you get a chance to haul out?

Hi Richard, yes I am a little concerned and would like suggestions on possibly repairing it in water.

I wouldn't slip it just to do that repair so i am not over worried but just concerned in general. the bilge pump manages it just fine.

As its always a concern every time it gets slipped with timber movement and some slips are a bit careless.

As it was only slipped in June i don't foresee antoe slip unless the leak becomes more of a concern, otherwise just when the antifoul is due again. since its copper plated underneath the antifoul lasts a good 2 years and hardly any issue then.

Originally Posted by PAR

It's not possible to "patch a wet location" on a carvel build, while in the water. Seams have to be addressed from the outside. Any attempts to "caulk" from the inside will wedge open seams further down the line and and you'll have more leaks.

Epoxy and carvel planking don't mix. The suggestions of new bottom planks may be valid. You wouldn't be the first owner praying to avoid replacing bottom planks. I might suggest that garboards need to be replaced more often then other planks, which looks like it could solve you little leaking.

If you can feel the plank moving as you press on and around that seam, the fasteners are loose. A new caulk job will fix this, but not for long (a season maybe). Of course refastening is another owner prayer session. The leak(s) don't look very bad, can your pumps keep up untill you get a chance to haul out?

Thats interesting you say epoxy & carvel planks(is that what they are?) don't mix? can you elaborate more?

I know thats one of the things the surveyor suggested 2 years ago was to soda blast then epoxy it all.

edit/

Also here is the vid i took showing how much water i pump out by manually turning on the override switch for the bilge pump. i reckon its about 60-70 ltrs of water. It will fill up a bit more before te bilge will auto activate. Be warned before watching the video as it may cause you to want to pee

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiZt8OFsI0"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

russ

So ... double diagonal. Not carvel or clinker.

It will be impossible to make anything other than a very temporary repair from the inside of the boat while it is in the water and I don't think it will work well or be good for the boat.

Basically with double diagonal there are two eras with diagonal planking. Glued and non glued.

This one if definitely in the glued era so something has gone wrong. The glue has let go or has never been done properly.

Or it is possible that it is just a very local area where it has become unglued.

If the boat is out of the water or maybe even in the water you might be able to hear the difference if you hit the hull sharply with the HANDLE of a screw driver. If the gluing has broken down over an area you might well be able to hear it and compare with other areas.

Is water coming in through a number of seams?

I do think that there is a glue problem because pressure from your thumb is making a big difference to the water coming in and out and you can, I think, see some movement between the edges of the planks.

By tapping it you should be able to work out the area of the problem.

The best way to fix this is to fix the broken glue joint. The only way to really do this is to remove the outer layer of planks from the outside of the boat in the area involved, let everything dry out and glue new ones on using epoxy - the most convenient and effective glue for the purpose.

Epoxying the outside or glassing it is just a patch up job without fixing the fundamental problem.

It is OK to use epoxy on this boat because it is supposed to be an all glued construction.

The surveyor's suggestion of epoxying the outside does not fix the fundamental problem because it does not get the planks layers glued back together. Don't think for a moment that you can inject glue in some way - it doesn't work - you need to put the epoxy down so you KNOW it is all over the surface before the replacement planking goes in

I would very much like PAR to have another look at this too. Like me, he was following a wrong set of assumptions, that the new video removes. He might have a different interpretation.

Main thing is to ascertain just how much of the area is affected.

Best wishes
Michael