Thread: Painting guide/help

Howdy,

While it is possible to use the amalgamation method to get a boat painted with minimal sanding it is not a good choice.

The end quality of a paint job depends on the amount of sanding done. So the more you do at each stage, the better the result will be. Also it allows you to identify problem spots (highs and lows) early.

If sanding at each stage there is no time frame for the paint. You can recoat any length of time after sanding.

MIK

Thanks, i just wanted clarification on how the system works. I will be using the primer, undercoat and topcoat. Depnding on how much epoxy i end up purchasing i may just epoxy the undersides of the forward and side decks and paint the areas that are visible.

Cheers

Ace

Originally Posted by Boatmik

If sanding at each stage there is no time frame for the paint. You can recoat any length of time after sanding.

MIK

I should have been more specific as I was referring to Northane. Ace is using Norglass and if he is using their Northane, observing recoating time is critical as it becomes chemically resistant to itself after a certain time, so sanding won't help much. In this instance the manufacturers instructions are important as it's different to most other coatings.

Priming is usually necessary and serves the functions listed above.

I've prepped surfaces well enough to go straight to topcoat on many occasions and have done so, but you use more topcoat this way, with is usually more costly then primer. You can add a pinch of talc and a little silica and a handful of Qcells or balloons to topcoat and it will becomes a pretty good primer, sandable and everything, but now you're screwing with things you probably shouldn't. You can also get a partial chemical bond with the substrate, depending on what's being used, but again, you'll be using more of the costly topcoat. So, in the end, it's generally better to just use the darn primer and give yourself a chance to smooth it out really good, before the topcoat goes down and reveals your effort in the surface prep.

Originally Posted by woodeneye

I should have been more specific as I was referring to Northane. Ace is using Norglass and if he is using their Northane, observing recoating time is critical as it becomes chemically resistant to itself after a certain time, so sanding won't help much. In this instance the manufacturers instructions are important as it's different to most other coatings.

Howdy,

It doesn't quite seem to make sense. If sanding and then recoating outside a certain time frame is not possible or a weaker way of doing it then it means the boat can't be repainted down the line.

I very much suspect one of their chemists has got a bit excited with the documentation if it implies it HAS to be recoated within a certain window. It is just not practical.

It is probably a measure of the maximum time you can expect a bond to occur without any sanding. But if you sand you can recoat any time later.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by Boatmik

From a design point of view the Analisa was (from my knowledge) the breakthrough hull which defined the NS14.

The original Javelin hulls were pretty blunt - the Javelin had a trapeze and 50% more sail area so was expected to plane.

The Analisa moved over to a finer entry and I think a narrower stern than the Javelin. They make almost no wake compared to the Jav.

Would love to see a plan for an Analisa! NS14s were a couple of generations (generations were only a year or so apart in the early days - lots of change) past that once I got into them.

Best wishes
Michael

Hi Mik,
I was fortunate to have one of the first Analisa hulls, after Robin Rae won his Championship. John McConachy built the shell and I finished her off. In actual fact, the hull form was very close to the Javelin, (yeah, I know - hard to believe!) just with the midships Vee measurement increased to the maximum, the stem height dropped dramatically and the chines at the transom dropped by 1", keeping the spring the same. This gave a flatter run aft and a noticeable increase in speed as long as you had a light crew up front.
Cheers
Graeme

Im interested to know about how the hull has evolved, especially back in the day. All the new hulls look fairly much the same to the untrained eye.

Are there many of the Analisa hulls left?

Cheers

Ace

Graeme,
Thanks hugely for the rundown on the differences between the Analisa and the Jav. I've only had very second hand info. having the maximum vee for that mid body measurement point would have two nice effects. Fine up the entry and reduce the wetted surface.

Did you race NS14s for a long time.

What year/s were the Analisas current and what took over from them?

Have you seen the wonderful websites in by the Cherubs and National 12s in the UK - they have catalogued and drawn up most of the hull developments over the decades so the evolution is clear.

Would be great to see something similar done with the NS14 as it has been years ahead of the development of other sailing classes through most decades.

Best wishes
Michael

Are there any plans around of the Analisa hulls? It would be interesting to see an old design like that built with new materials. I know it woudlnt be a racing machine but it would be nice to see.

Ace

I would like to see them too. Or any of the wooden NS14 plans.

I think it would be great to see a "nostalgia series" of boat plans. All those "older" racing boats that people loved to sail back in the day being built again, in new materials, but with timber spars and none of the fancy gear etc etc.

Bring back the grass roots dinghy racing where it was skill and not your $15000 high tech boat that won you races. It seems to be a common thing from what i have read, its all getting too expensive for the average family to get racing.

I have caught the sailing bug, its good to be back.

Ace

Howdy ... it is not the $15000 high tech boat that wins races.

It is always the sailor. But the difference now is that good sailors need to spend $15000 to race equally with everyone else.

If everyone was stuck with a budget of $5000 the same guys (or gals) would win!

The crazy thing is that it has almost never been the high tech that wins races but it is pursued by the group to the illogical end where few and fewer can afford the boats any more.

MIK

By the way ... did you see the National 12 site and its recap of its history of boat design?

Just about every boat is documented from 1936!!!!

It is a bit sad the NS14 can't be represented in the same way. It has been so far in front of the design curve compared to any other class - maybe the Moth has jumped past at different times and some of the UK cherubs are pretty interesting since the mid '90s (including goatish ones).

I think the Nash boats (early '80s) in particular fed into a lot of 18 footer thinking as well - I think he was the first to really think about more fullness in the bottom part of the entry and keeping the waterlines narrow there - with the whole boat planing instead of thinking the back end would plane and the front wasn't important.

And allowed the rocker to be stripped out too. Hammond was right in there too.

Great stuff that deserves documentation.

MIK

Hi Mik,
I've only just revisited this thread. I sailed NS14s for about 30 years, starting with a Javelin hull then an Analisa. I even designed a hull myself. There were no commercial plans that I know of for the Analisa, it was conceived by Robin and built by McConachy. There were a number of competitive designs around, Vic Hammond always seemed to have a slightly different hull every year as evidenced by the number of Flights (named after a racehorse, not an aeroplane). I have been racking my brains to remember the design that the association sold as a replacement for the Javelin, blame early onset dementia, it will come, (I ran the plans service for many years). The Lake boats were very fast, Superoo comes to mind. Warwick and Derek Downes were sailing the Togram while Bethwaite designed and built the Dribbly, first in ply and then in f/glass. Sightly earlier, Colin Thorne had designed and built a cold moulded hull, Tweedledee, which was produced in limited numbers but looked very pretty and was faster than the Javelin. Others, like Pat Smith, experimented with rig development.
I will have to look out my old Bulletins which always reviewed the design of the latest State Champion boat, until the builders realised that they could be commercial, and the free exchange of information that characterised the class and promoted its growth, dried up.
In the early years of the class, huge development took place as everyone talked about what they were doing so that all benefited. There were aluminium hulls, hulls carved out of polystyrene blocks and glassed over, sheet ply, moulded ply, hybrid glass and ply etc.
Cheers
Graeme