Thread: Pawlonia or Western Red Cedar?

I had a quick look at the boat.

1. I wouldn't use paulownia or WRC for the frames. The problem you'll get is the bolts will crush and tear the timber over time.

2. Generally timber strength is relative to it's density. I'd be looking for a medium timber like hoop or oregon (aka douglas fir) or something about the 600 - 700 kg/m^3 range. It is cheaper than wrc and won't add too much to your overall weight. Should be easy to find without any joints in the sizes you'll need.

3. Durability. WEST system and a good paint or UV filterning varnish.

4. Ply, someting without voids, and water and boil proof. Doesn't have to be rolls royce marine grade. Australian hoop marine ply would be ideal. Read the threads on asian marine ply, it's not always good quality.

Howdy, One caution with converting is while it is sensible to convert measurements when ordering timber it is best not to convert when building. Converting building measurements usually results in a bunch of cascading errors that mean really big mistakes as you get to the other end of the boat. One Goat Island Skiff ended up with the forward bulhead out of vertical by over an inch (25mm) because of converting the drawings with a calculator or table. Converting the material list is fine. Unless there are specific notices in the plan to say a particular thickness must be accurate, most sizes are nominal - at least for holding the hull together. So 3/4 square can mean 19mm square but a mm or so each side is not going to hurt. One place to be pretty spot on is the chine logs as they only just make the bend if they are 19 x 19 - on my PDR plan version I ended up defining them as laminated. Where it might count is with parts of the boat taking particular load, mast and other spars, centreboard, leeboard - maybe bits that define fits like centreboard and rudder case spacers/headlogs. Most bits of timber that form part of the hull are nominal, but higher loaded parts like the above often need to be pretty close. Use nominal sizing but if in doubt give the designer or plans agent a yell. Michael

my paragraphing has disappeared ... how strange.

I wouldn't use paulownia or WRC for the frames. The problem you'll get is the bolts will crush and tear the timber over time.

I totally agree.

Originally Posted by pajeronj

...as it happens my Triton is calibrated in metric. I though that was what the 14th of February 1966 was all about.

No, that was the decimalization of our currency. Did I spell that right?

Heh heh, yes you're right mob, it was indeed the changing of our currency. Like I say, maybe I'll go away and have a big think about this. My triton mk 3 will do finger joints and yes Mik, it is a good idea to get the other bits done before attempting construction of the hull. I could also have a go at scarfing?

Given my total lack of experience and the unknowable outcome of this project I think I'll just sail it in shallow lakes. That way when my big feet go through the floor I can still walk around and people will think I'm sailing.

Funny.

Small boats aren't critical for strength, so putting your feet through the floor or it falling in two won't be your problem. It may leak.

Your first problem is if the measurements are a bit off as you make bits when you come to fit it all together it won't. Ply comes up a bit short, or the nesting parts don't line up.

The second problem is it'll gradually look more and more ragged over time. Eventually stuff will start to fail.

Personally I think it's an excellant starter project, provided your ready for an ugly outcome or a relatively shortlived boat. Thing is it doesn't require much money/materials and time, and the potential to drown in a small boat is less because you are less likely to try to get to new zealand in it.

You may build a wonderful boat, just don't expect that outcome first try. You could build one from rubbish, make all your mistakes, then redo it with better materials. Just a thought...

Yes, good thought, Damian. I have got on to some cheap tassie oak, I'll just trim the little blighters down to plan size and have a go from there. Probably best not to stress about it. If all else fails I will call it "Book Case".

You have all been very helpful, thank you!!

I'll let you know how I go, I'll try and get a few sticks done this weekend. At least if I cut the timber and mock it up I'll hopefully begin to get a "sense" of the boat.
The PD Racer has just got so much going for it for me. I like to sail (used to have a 20' Sunmaid), and I fancy sneaking into little lakes and paddling or small outboarding. The PD should fit on my roof rack. I'll try and keep looking on the positive.

Peter

Pajeronj,

I'm not sure of your underlying basis for wanting a boat, so this post may be helpful, or unhelpful!

I built my first boat 2yrs ago, which was a stitch and glue John Welsford design Setnet/Golden Bay dinghy. I had previously had no particular interest in boating, or boat building (although have an interest in cabinet-making), and it seemed like a nice project to do with my eldest daughter. It went together very well, and was a fun project (although her interest diminished quickly due to increasing study commitments). It probably cost me about $800 all up, which I thought was a pretty cheap boat, and we've had a lot of fun in it. I've built it as a Setnet rowing style dinghy (with a larger foredeck/forward locker, but the Golden Bay version is a gaff rigged sailing version.

Since then I bought an old fiberglass speedboat hull on ebay for $100 to do up ( I wanted a bigger boat.....!). Although the transom, floor and subfloor need replacing, the material cost of doing this myself would be about $500, and then seats/windscreen can be made/bought reasonably easily to get a good boat hull for under a $1000. Major cost here is going to be a motor.

Sadly another boat project came up recently which I bought - an 18' wooden half cabin, for $650, with trailer. It needs almost no work. I previously looked around at building a plywood half cabin , and it would have cost about $7K in materials alone. I'm now in the process of selling the speedboat hull, as I don't need 2 big boats (ie there's a cheap Swiftcraft Runabout on ebay at the moment, and I've done most of the hard stuff of cutting out the transom and floor).

What I'm getting at is that whilst it is extremely fulfilling to build a boat, and it is cheap compared to buying a new boat, if all you want is a boat to get on the water, it may be cheaper to look around on ebay for a pre-loved one. And lastly, remember that outboard motors are comparatively expensive.

Thank you, Andrew I found it very helpful. I actually already have a 3.4 metre tinny that sits on top of my camper (photo attached ... I think). We blew up the old Chrysler motor last trip (not a difficult thing to do!) so we're going to get another motor for it around tax refund time.

I sold the Sunmaid because we were living in Bairnsdale at the time at it was just perfect. Then we were transferred to Melbourne and I was fearful of Port Phillip Bay so we sold the Sunmaid.

Maybe your observation is very accurate, maybe I just need a dinghy that can sail and motor; something that needs minimal repairs? The tinny is great for fishing and stooging about and could even venture out on the bay in the right conditions. It's funny isn't it, I wouldn't take a 20 ft yacht out but will happily go out in an 11'3" ally.

What I do know is after listening to what people have been saying is there is more to building a boat like Puddle Duck or even the Toter 2 than meets the eye. Maybe after spending $900 on materials and ending up with something that looks and sails like a dismantled gasometer through poor construction, I would have been better off with something that just needed some TLC, glassing and paint. It's a shame I can't sail the tinny!

I don't know if I have the requisite skill so there's more to think about.

Thanks Andrew your post was much appreciated.

There seems to be a recurring theme in your posts... lack of skill.

Skill is the result of making mistakes and learning how to;
a. Recognise the mistake
b. Not repeat it
c. Solve the problem and rectify it

You'll be amazed at how big a blooper can be fixed with epoxy. So long as both sides of the boat are roughly the same size and there's only the big hole at the top for putting people and the esky in the boat you'll be right. Maybe it won't win prizes at the Royal Show, but you'll learn heaps in the making of your first boat and may even get the bug - ending up with a fleet!

So don't worry about your lack of skill, just grab a camera and take pics when you're in doubt. We'll all have a good chuckle at your expense and then figure a way to help you out.

Oh, and tools? It's far easier for someone new to the game to destroy a good sheet of ply with a bandsaw than with a jigsaw. Don't have a jigsaw? Use a coping saw and muscle... slower and much more accurate again. If you need to do a particular task and no idea which tool to uses, give us another chuckle moment and we'll come up with something .

The main thing is... give it a go. It's unlikely you'll regret it

OK? You're on! I'll grab some of that tassie oak and start with the framing. Still not sure which boat I'll build. Maybe if it won't win a prize at the Royal Show I might start off with the Toter (mit marine ply), then graduate to the PD.

Thanks

Peter

Perhaps then look at some of John Welsford's simpler boat designs - as I said the Setnet/Golden Bay dinghy can be built as a sailing boat or rowing/motoring dinghy. Google his site, and you can check out the basic plans there - there is an easily laminated stem, 3 simple cross frames, a simple transom (which needs to be modified if you want to use a small outboard), plywood sides and flat bottom, and then the seats/bulkhead/gunwhales etc support the whole structure. I built mine using marine ply, but in hindsight a cheaper ply would have been fine. Frames were built out of redwood, coz I was given some, but pine would have ben fine. I did my gunwhales with WRC, which I had from some old skirting boards, but it is too soft and would have been better with KD hardwood.

In terms of tools, I used a jigsaw for cutting the shapes, a plane for making the skarf joints in the ply (although you could butt join them using your triton), and a small plane and spoke shave for the rest, and my Mk 2 triton for cross sawing the frames ( a handsaw would have done this).

In planning and pricing other boat projects, it would seem that the cost of plywood/wood for a boat is similar to the cost of epoxy/fiberglass tape/cloth and paint, FYI.

Beyond this, if you really want to sail, I have a great NS14 skiff which I need to sell. A patient (inconveniently, quirky as this may seem) gave it to me just before I was going to start building the . I decided to do up the NS14 first, which is probably why my daughter lost interest in the Setnet. I've replaced the bulkeads and foredeck, and re-rigged it, and took it out one day for a very successful sail, but I really have no interest in sailing, and, as I seem to be becoming an "Admiral" in terms of numbers of boats owned, it will need to go too. If interested, let me know. By the by, I'm in Camberwell, which is probably not on my profile.

I suspect you'd be better building something like the Setnet/Golden Bay dinghy, and don't disservice yourself in terms of lack of skills. If you want to do anything in life, you can, and forums like these provide any additional support you may need.

Other simple designs come up from time to time in the mag "Wooden Boat".

A

I was putting together my response when Darce responded - I agree with him entirely. Just get out there and do it, and forget you "lack of skills" . We are all here to add to your journey, if you need us.