Thread: Possibly buying 39" cray boat, advice?

I am quite concerned that you say the ply is damp.
That really is a big worry in my mind.
I suggest paying for a proper survey.
Money well spent regardless of the outcome.
Paul.

Thanks for the advice Paul. I went back today for a closer look, she's taking on water along the keel, also had about a foot of fresh water up fwd under the wheelhouse. Nasty things growing down there, keel and ply was soft, fastenings through frames were corroded away, so sadly i had to walk away. Will be looking at a 36 foot flybridge cruiser tomorrow though. A bit more money, but this old girl is glass over ply, has a good perkins diesel (single shaft) and just came off the hardstand a few weeks ago with fresh paint and antifoul. Will keep you all posted!

Chris

Very pleased to hear you did not get caught with that boat.
Best of luck with your next inspection.
I still suggest a proper survey.
But at least spend a long time going over any boat you are thinking about.
It is sometimes up to 2 days to inspect a vessel of this size, depending on the complexity and fit out of the vessel.
Time well spent in my opinion.
Good Luck.
Paul.

Hey Chris,

Paul has offered some sound advice there, I strongly suggest you get a proper survey done by a registered Shipwright, and get it out of the water yourself, just because it was just out for AF and repaint doesn't mean it's Ok, your surveyor will need to look himself (If he is anygood) you may spend a few hundred Dollars but it could save thousands if not tens of thousands down the track. Glass over Ply suggests that it isn't a spring chicken so do yourself a favour and get it surveyed. Don't forget that B.O.A.T. stands for Bring Out Another Thousand.

Good Luck

HazzaB

Thanks again guys. Well I had an interesting day! The guy who owns this 36' flybridge cruiser doesn't know a whole lot about it, and has owned it for a year and a half, but hardly used it. I went through the whole boat, and found the following-

I believe it to be a Perkins T6354 diesel, reversing gearbox and V-drive. She was re-powered in 2000, engine looks fair, no corrosion, a lot of unsightly paint. Turbo exhaust housing is not in good shape and does have a leak on the exhaust dump from the turbo. 30PSI oil pressure on engine at idle, 40 PSI at around 1500 RPM. Selects forward and reverse fine, does have some backlash in V drive. All sounds good underway, cruises happily at around 1500 RPM. All bilge surfaces are sealed, but she has taken on water in the bilge since being fouled and on the hardstand 3 weeks ago. Slight drip from shaft gland, but unsure if thats the cause of water. interior fitout is great, new carpet and massive fwd cabin with all new upholstery. WC with sink and head. Hydraulic twin station steering, in both wheelhouse and flybridge. No idea on size of fuel tank or water tank. Flybridge floor has been extended back as a hardtop, has covers to enclose aft deck. Took it for a spin in the bay and was very nice.

Now the bad bits- water in bilge. Turbo exhaust leak. All the removable ply floor panels around transom and wheelhouse need replacing. Timber rub rails along transom have soft spots, actual hull from chine up and transom are in good shape and repainted. Fwd cabin roof has paint lifting and needs repainting, possible replacing. Floor of flybridge looks to need replacing, not too bad. Fwd deck (not sure of correct term) from sides of superstructure fwd to anchor winch need replacing, lots of bad spots with dodgy repairs in glass and bog.

Overall I was very happy with the boat, and have arranged to get the bilges sucked out dry for better inspection, and tomorrow will be arranging for a lift onto hardstand and professional hull survey. What is the normal obligation, i have offered to split the costs of lift/hardstand and survey with owner, he seems to be happy with that, just need to price it all up tomorrow. Any advice from those in the know? Also, has anyone had any experience with Perkins T6354's and have any stories to pass on? The boat is very cheap, and very large, around 20k and comes with a mooring close to my home that is approx worth 8k.

Look forward to your replies,

Chris

Great decision to get your boat professionally surveyed.
Good luck with the outcome.

Costs are generally by agreement between the 2 parties and can vary a lot.
Do the best you can in your negotiations, but remember, even if you have to pay the total cost, it will still be to your advantage in the long run.

Good luck.

Paul.

If you pay for the survey and the owner pays for the haul out, you can keep the survey. If you split the cost of everything, then the owner has the right to ask for a copy of the survey.

Generally, it's in the owner's interest to have a current survey. In fact, it's quite common to have a "seller's" survey from an owner. I'm of the type that will reject out of hand, any attempt by an owner or prospective buyer to preform this type of survey, which has off many a client in the past and exactly why I'm paid up front for preforming a survey.

In short, you want the real condition and assessment of the vessel, not owner paid for fluff. Which is why I usually tell folks to get the yacht surveyed separate of the owner. If you elect to not buy the boat, most times you can sell the survey to the owner. Haul out costs are the responsibility of the owner, so if they want to sell it, they need to absorb these costs, unless they met a nice fellow like you. Since you're splitting the costs, you should be there during the haul out and the survey. This will prevent any colorful explanations of her real condition and you can talk to the lift operator, plus other yard personal about her general care, upkeep, etc., which is often more informative then a glowing survey.

thanks for that guys! I spoke to a couple of surveyors, one of which knew the boat when it was moored at royal perth yacht club in the 70's! He was almost certain a ply boat of its age that has been glassed in would have some rot at best, and explained how fresh water will drain down though the superstructure and get in etc. The cabin roofs and upper decks all have rot in them so despite the fact i could replace these items, the damage below would have already been done. I went back today and spent an hour or so sucking out the bilges and the ply was soft on either side of the timber keel from down aft past midships. The bilge paint was long gone in most areas along the keel, and bare ply exposed. I priced up what it was worth to have someone haul her out and put on a hardstand and cost of survey, but I won't be taking it any further, this boat is beyond my skills, time and money. I shall keep looking, thanks again for all your advice!

Chris

Hi Ricochet,
Pleased to hear you got that boat sorted out before you had to spend any money.
Each time you go through this process you will gain more knowledge with each experience.
PAR has made some good comments re costs. But I just notice his address, as in USA. There may be a set way of proceeding in the US, but here in Aus I find there is more latitude. Generally the buyer will pay for inspection slipping, that is pretty standard. Choosing a neautral surveyor is very important, he?she should not be known by either party if possible. How the ownership of the survey result is decided is up to the 2 parties but generally if you pay the bill you own it.
Australia is a bit less structured than America in many ways and handshake agreements still do exist. So how you proceed depends on how you prefer to do business and what risks you are prepared to take.
I think it is always best to keep things on a business like basis.
The bottom line is, the money you spend on slipping and survey is well worth it regardless of the resulting report, good or bad, a good surveyor will let you know what condition your future investment is in.
Paul.

Good luck with your next one.

I'm not sure what you're attempting to say Hooked.Up, but the USA is very lax about any standard in reagrd to survey, who pays who, etc. In fact, we do the same as you (imagine that) and anyone contemplating a major purchase is best advised to get (pay for) a survey. You wouldn't buy a house without a professional inspection or an antique car, without a trusted mechanic going over it with a fine tooth comb. The same applies with boats and I don't think Chris misunderstood anything that was said, but thanks for your ill informed attempts to clarify my American comments anyway.

Haha.. we're all friends here, and i really appreciate all the help you guys have given me. The good news is I have found a boat, and its a good one, from a boat dealer. I bit the bullet and am buying a tupperware boat, but will be making a timber/marine ply kitchenette, so perhaps can still talk about it on this forum haha. Is anyone interested in some information and pictures of the new boat, despite it being fibreglass?

Chris

yeah keep up the posts those of us who are time and water deprived enjoy looking

Congratulations on your purchase, Ricochet.

I hope the boat serves you well for many years.

Yes a pic would be nice, just to see what you finally decided on.

Good luck with the new vessel.

Paul.

Interesting topic surveys. I have paid for three surveys in the the last 8 years and two of them were not good. As a complete novice I bought a 28ft Swanson through a broker and within 12 months spent $8000 dollars recterfing litttle problems like the engine was 10mm out of alignment which had caused all sorts of damage to prop shaft and stern tube.
The little steel yacht that I took to Tassy came with a 3 month old survey that was included in the price. 6 weeks after I bought the boat I slipped it at Devonport Tas and while cleaning out the bilge and lazerett I quite easily put a paint scapper through the hull in 4 places. The worst damage was repaired (by me) by cutting out the whole rudder tube and a 150mm square top and bottom plus most of the engine mounts. This boat wound up speding 2 months on the hard (6 weeks longer than planned).
The best survey I have paid for was on the 32ft wooden motor sailer, done by a little frenchman at Pittwater.
The insurance mob uasally have the last say in whether a survey is required.
When I bought Wavedancer back from the bloke I sold it to I was able to convince the insurace man that the boat was perfect, based on the 2 surveys in 4 years and my own inspections in and out of the water and they waved the "compulsory" survey.
Most good brokers have tips on buying and selling keel boats and who pays for what on their web sights ( goggle Lamoores), which can be used as a guide for private sales.
Good luck with the new boat Cris
Ian L