Thread: Restoring a Jack Holt 'Vagabond'

OK, I finally stuck the new jaws on the gaff. They're well and truely stuck on, so please don't tell me I've got problems with them...apart from the fact that I've yet to drill the holes in it yet.



OK, next question...

As you may have seen from my varnishing thread, progress on finishing has started again, and I'm now considering when it comes to putting the boat back together again.

Fasteners...Is it worth replacing all the existing brass screws/bolts with stainless, or is that just looking for a reason to spend money?

I would guess that modern Phillips head stainless steel screws would be easier to work with than older style slotted brass ones.

Also, when fastening fittings to the boat, do the screws need to be glued with something to seal the hole?

Thanks.

Oh, no, the jaws are upside down . . . damn, that's got to you off. I had to have some fun didn't I? If you've used brass screws, remove them and replace them with bronze. Brass is the weak knee, red headed step child to bronze. Since your boat already has bronze fasteners, check to see if they're tight, replace any damaged ones, but whole sale replacement with stainless is unwise and unnecessary. The reason is simple, you can't mix stainless with bronze. You have to use one or the other. Since your boat has bronze, the choice has been made for you.

Aligning slots on screw heads looks like a nice, neat detail, but actually it means the screws aren't tight or are over tight. There is a point when a screw head bottoms against the work and the threads tighten down. If you turn any more then this, you are beginning to strip the threads, if you back off (to align the slots) then it's not quite tight enough. In a judged boats show, you'll be hit with "demerits" for aligned screw slots.

For what it's worth, you can apply a lot more torque to a slotted head scerw then a Phillips. Also a Phillips head will hold moisture in the cross point, which can be a point of entry for rot, while a slotted head will drain off the moisture in most cases. On the other hand, it's easier to drill out a Phillips then a slotted. I'm a square drive fan myself.

Originally Posted by Hawk

Fasteners...Is it worth replacing all the existing brass screws/bolts with stainless, or is that just looking for a reason to spend money?

Maybe one question is: 'Can I get the old fasteners out?'

And another is: 'Do I need to?' - this being on the basis of don't start something you don't have to ... which ties in with the first one, you don't want go drilling old screws out and buggering around with extractors when the old kit is still doing the job.

Richard

Aside from the fasteners holding the boat together (mixture of bronze (I hope ) screws and nails), which I'm not planning on removing, I was more concerned with what I attach the stainless, aluminum, and plastic fittings with. If the existing slotted screws are still acceptable, then I shall continue to use those, and only replace the ones that I really need to...because they're all corroded.

Bummer about the aligned screw heads...you caught me out there... I was doing as my Year 9 woodwork teacher taught me...not what my Tafe Boat Building teacher taught me. Hang on...did Moose teach us that in Wooden Boats 101?

Originally Posted by Hawk

...did Moose teach us that in Wooden Boats 101?

Moose never mentioned it and I'm a chronic screw head aligner ... now sort of relieved to know that I'm not supposed to

Richard

OK, so progress has been slow but steady. I've finished varnishing the cockpit and epoxying the deck. I've now flipped the hull back over to get back to finishing the outer hull. The plan is to fill, sand, epoxy, sand, epoxy, sand, (maybe again, but probably won't need it), undercoat, sand, top coat, sand, top coat FINISHED!

So is there a question in all this...well not directly related to the above, but YES.

Meanwhile I've been finishing the spars and rest of the bits. I'm starting to think about putting some fittings back onto things. I read in the 'Tips' thread about beding the fittings in Sikaflex. Do you bed the whole fitting in Sikaflex, or just around the screw holes? And what does this do when it comes time to remove the fittings next time?

Thanks.

Bedding is a uniform thickness of sealant between the hardware and the mounting surface. Think of this as a gasket of goo, that keeps out moisture. Ideally it's under all of the contact areas.

Traditionally this means an oil based sealant, maybe even a bit of cotton string under all hardware. Now, we have adhesive/sealants, which has screwed up more then one boat that's for sure. Some of these adhesive/sealants are much more adhesive then sealant and they make hardware removal difficult if not imposable later. If you do manage to get the part off, it tears out wood or leaves a residue that's very difficult to remove.

Welcome the wonders of modern materials. Bedding should be sealant, not adhesive. The fasteners hold the part down, the goo's stickiness is redundant. The goo stays in place as a result of the pressure between the contact faces.

So, to answer you questions, apply bedding uniformly across the whole contact area. Insure there's enough to have "ooze out" around the whole piece. Don't over tighten the hardware, just lightly snug it down, then let it cure (some goo's can takes weeks) then come back and dog down the part good, once the bedding is cured. This process prevents the goo from being smashed out of the joint when you initially tighten down the hardware. Bedding starved joints is the biggest mistake made when installing hardware. In your country, I'm not sure of the brands, but I use 3M products. Polysulfide (3M 101) are very good bedding compounds and have less stick-um then, sealing qualities and can be easily removed a decade later if necessary. Polyurethanes are usually much more adhesive than sealant and these are the ones that will make you cuss when you need to remove the hardware. Some are engineered to have less "tack", so find these if you must use polyurethane.

Howdy,

With small dinghies it is common to not use sealant between the fittings and the hull. The reason is that often the fittings have to be removed.

The exception is any fitting that needs to provide a watertight seal - such as a bung or inspection port.

With normal fittings it was common to use a pipe cleaner and put varnish into the hole as well as dip the threaded part of bolts and screws in varnish and not put sealant under the fitting itself.

Now some builders will use epoxy in the same way - but that does have a drawback. The advantage is that it increases the strength of the attachment to the hull and reduce the risk of water intrusion. But the downside is that the fastener has to be heated to be removed.

Best wishes
Michael