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  1. #1
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    Default Timber boat building adhesive.

    I am in the early stages of building a Spira Seneca dory for my son to fish the inland rivers. Is there a suitable construction adhesivethat I can use in lieu of epoxy? It is a ply on frame boat.
    I realise that thiscan start all sorts of arguments.
    Just Do It !

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  3. #2
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    If the boat will be stored out of the water and out of the weather, I'm sure that you can use a suitable polyurethane adhesive.

    But apart from the small cost saving, why would you consider using a polyurethane in preference to a boat building epoxy?
    regards from Canada

    ian

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    If the boat will be stored out of the water and out of the weather, I'm sure that you can use a suitable polyurethane adhesive.

    But apart from the small cost saving, why would you consider using a polyurethane in preference to a boat building epoxy?
    Ian,
    Thanks for the relpy. I appreciate the strength and other benefits of epoxy and there is no doubt that it is the best adhesive to build with but it is so damned messy to work with and probably slower and less convenient to use than a cartridge single part poroduct. I have not ruled out using epoxy, was just wondering if there were any good alternatives.
    Just Do It !

  5. #4
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    don't know if you can get it in Australia, and I have no idea of the likely cost, but here you can buy two part epoxy in a cartridge that mixes as it is "gunned".

    I've used a fair it of System Three over the past year or so and find that grease proof kitchen paper is a good way to control the mess. Arrange masking tape and paper where ever spills, runs or overflow is likely and at the end of a gluing just bundle it all up and toss the paper and overflow into the bin.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  6. #5
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    Ian,
    I see a System Three product called T-88 but it doesn't say anything about a gun mounted mixer.
    Alan.
    Just Do It !

  7. #6
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    one of my local (Calgary) bulk epoxy suppliers is a mob called Industrial Plastics.
    I was in the store about a month ago looking for something to glue UHMW plastic to itself. One of the possible epoxies was a gunable two-part but I don't recall it's name or manufacturer.
    In Canada, T-88 is available in a 250ml gunable tube.



    In the end I decided on a solution that didn't require gluing the UHMW to itself.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  8. #7
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    Well I have just epoxied the keelson to the frames using a micro ball hi strength filler with it. I will do a bit more searching for the T-88 gunable cartridges.
    I have laminated the keelson from two pieces of mountain ash. one piece is 90mm x 19mm and the other 90 x 16. Laying them down separately.
    I have to get on with this, have been up north for the winter for 5 months so everything has stalled.
    Just Do It !

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    one of my local (Calgary) bulk epoxy suppliers is a mob called Industrial Plastics.
    I was in the store about a month ago looking for something to glue UHMW plastic to itself. One of the possible epoxies was a gunable two-part but I don't recall it's name or manufacturer.
    In Canada, T-88 is available in a 250ml gunable tube.



    In the end I decided on a solution that didn't require gluing the UHMW to itself.
    for completeness, West Systems also make a gunable epoxy Six10
    regards from Canada

    ian

  10. #9
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    Being clean and neat with Epoxy isn't too hard if your organised and if you have an extra helper about to clean up any runs or drips so much the better. One tip is to mix any thickened epoxy in a good zip lock bag then cut one corner out of it and use it to pipe the epoxy into place like you would pipe icing onto a cake.

    but if you are really opposed to Epoxy you could look at something like Titebond 3, or a similar single part glue which may hold up under occasional use in a boat which isn't left in the water etc etc.

    good luck.

  11. #10
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    Polyurethane adhesive is an option, though has it's own issues to contend with. It's a single part adhesive, but needs a lot of clamping pressure to work (unlike epoxy) and it foams up, out of seams and such too. Ounce for ounce, it's more costly than epoxy. TiteBond III can't be recommend for immersed joints, but is fine on others. It has a short working time and isn't gap filling either.

    I wouldn't recommend mixing epoxy in a plastic bag. One of the most important things with mixing, is to get every single molecule mashed against the others in the batch. A plastic bag will leave unmixed areas in the folds of the bag. The bag also tends to "mass" the epoxy, which will cause it to kickoff (start the cure process) long before it should. The best way to mix epoxy is in a large, flat bottom tub of some sort, preferably with well rounded corners, so you can scrape the corners and sides easily. Log onto my site for more working with goo tips. Also log onto Westsystem.com and Systemthree.com to download their free user's guides and epoxy book.

    Epoxy is more about process and procedure than anything else. Get the basics down and you'll do just fine, right out of the gate.

  12. #11
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    Use a 1:1 epoxy glue, much easier to work with than trying to mix in filler powders etc. The stuff you buy from boatcraft pacific (they will post) is pretty good.

    I mix by weight, use a set of dedicated kitchen scales for the job.

    Once you get the hang of it, epoxy isn't to bad. I still manage to get the stuff all over my hands, but a pair of surgical gloves fixes that problem. I have also seen blokes use catheter syringes to dispense the stuff, but guessing that would start getting expensive that way.

  13. #12
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    Thanks for the response. It's not that I'm opposed to epoxy it's just that I thought there may have been an easier way. I am going to try some Epoxy-Glue which seems to be worth a try. It's mentioned in a ost on this thread.
    Just Do It !

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAR View Post
    Polyurethane adhesive is an option, though has it's own issues to contend with. It's a single part adhesive, but needs a lot of clamping pressure to work (unlike epoxy) and it foams up, out of seams and such too. Ounce for ounce, it's more costly than epoxy. TiteBond III can't be recommend for immersed joints, but is fine on others. It has a short working time and isn't gap filling either.

    I wouldn't recommend mixing epoxy in a plastic bag. One of the most important things with mixing, is to get every single molecule mashed against the others in the batch. A plastic bag will leave unmixed areas in the folds of the bag. The bag also tends to "mass" the epoxy, which will cause it to kickoff (start the cure process) long before it should. The best way to mix epoxy is in a large, flat bottom tub of some sort, preferably with well rounded corners, so you can scrape the corners and sides easily. Log onto my site for more working with goo tips. Also log onto Westsystem.com and Systemthree.com to download their free user's guides and epoxy book.

    Epoxy is more about process and procedure than anything else. Get the basics down and you'll do just fine, right out of the gate.
    I use zip lock bags for running fillets after mixing the epoxy and filler in disposable plastic cups. I am going to try som Bote Cote 1:1 mix epoxy glue for structural joins mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Thanks for your response.
    Just Do It !

  15. #14
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    Default

    Boatcraft Pacific have a product called Purbond, which is a single pack watee proof polyurethane glue. Link below.

    Purbond 250ml Polyurethane Glue - Waterproof, Strong, Economical. - $13.95

    I am just starting my second boat restoration, and Purbond will be a major part of the glues i will be using.

  16. #15
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    Default

    Polyurethanes work well, but unlike epoxy, these need close fitting joints and significant clamping pressure to get insurable joints. These adhesives also tend to foam up (expand) as they cure, which means an ugly ooze out can occur, that's difficult to fix, sand or hide. This foaming action is violent enough to separate well fitted joints, that don't have enough clamping power to hold them down. I do use polyurethanes, but not that much, for these reasons. Lastly epoxy is more than a glue, but is also a coating, which can waterproof wood or seal down 'glass fabrics. It's also more costly ounce for ounce than the typical marine epoxies we use. If looking for convenience, you might consider the premix epoxies in a cartridge. These can be applied just like using a caulking gun, though more costly than the regular epoxies, certainly less messy.

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