Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hobart, TAS
    Posts
    14

    Default Tooling up for boatbuilding

    I'm still in the pick-a-plan & get the materials stage, but I'm also looking at tooling up. Looking early might allow for some ebay or garage-sale scores. If you have followed my other thread, I'm going to build a dayboat (RYD-16.2, GIS, or similar). I've always been fortunate enough to borrow most tools when needed, but now I'm in a new town with nobody to bludge from. So I'm starting from scratch; except sockets, vice-grips, screwdrivers. These are things I reckon I'll need:


    1. Power saw. Circular, sabre/reciprocating, jig. Table saw is probably out, do to space. I'd rather not buy all three, $$$.
    2. Power drill.
    3. Japanese hand saw or two. There seems to be many kinds...
    4. Sander. Orbital or belt?
    5. A plane. I've never even used one of these...
    6. Hammer & chisels.
    7. Clamps. A bunch! Most versatile type?

    Anything I'm missing? I'd appreciate ideas for versatility, as tools will be significant expenditure for this guy's empty garage wall...

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Age
    71
    Posts
    631

    Default

    It's hard to know where to start without knowing the peculiarities of your eventual design, but assuming it'll be marine ply plus smallish scantlings of medium timber, I'd recommend a cordless system like the 'Ryobi one plus' system which gives the freedom and safety of being without power cords and the advantages of shared batteries for multiple tools. (here is r 'review' of the range. Note some of the the prices are USD - http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...obioneplus.htm

    I found that little saw cuts (even light curves) accurately with a very fine kerf. I have 2 batteries (1 always on the charger) which power a small orbital detail sander, a small router/trimmer, the circular saw and a powerful drill/ driver. Good value for money and they have stood up to some hard work. I used to only buy higher quality power tools, but nowadays they don't always seem to last much better than some cheapies. For example, a beautiful Makita orbital sander soon wore out its velcro pad and the replacement pad cost nearly as much as a whole new Bosch sander (which has not worn out nearly so soon and came with a much more useful dust collection thingy).

    I don't like recommending particular products or retail outlets, but these would form a terrific core of tools and are available from the place that starts with "B". I really object to them taking on an exclusive arrangement with Ryobi, because now I am reduced in my ability to support my local hardware store. But there you are. Sometimes life (and particularly commerce) sucks.

    Hand tools is a whole other story...
    What caused the Pacific War? A book to read: here

    http://middlething.blogspot.com/

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Fremantle
    Age
    56
    Posts
    125

    Default

    I'll 2nd the Ryoby cordless tools.
    I initially started cutting with a Jigsaw. The cuts were not very clean, and the blade did wander a fir bit. Anything I did required a good clean-up with a planer.
    Then by chanace I came across a Ryoby Cordless circular saw(5in blade). It was ideal for the job. Clean cuts that where quite fair, with minimal cleanup afterwoods.

    I would NOT recommend an expensive corless drill. My $550 Dewalt is now covered in epoxy (. Go for a decent brand, but go for the low end. Most of the timbers you'll be drilling are fairly light weight.

    Sanding is very time consuming, so I'd recommend a decent sander.
    Depending on your boat design, you may require both Belt and Random Orbital. I use the belt sander for shaping wooden pieces, and the RO for general sanding.

    A decent Hand Planer always comes in handy, especially if you'll be making your own spars.

    The Japanese Pull Saw is very handy. I have one, and I'm amazed by its cutting ability.

    A set of decent chisels is a must. But again, it depend s on the design you chose.

    A Box full of clamps and a couple saw horses and you'll have all you need.

    If you can get someone to supply you with stock in the correct dimensions/thickness, then you'll save yourself a lot of time.

    Hope that helps


    Cheers

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hobart, TAS
    Posts
    14

    Default

    The Ryobi One+ system looks a good option. They seem to have all the required power tools I should need. I neglected to mention that I have a distinct lack of power points in the garage, so a extension cable will be run through the window from upstairs. The all-purpose battery would be a great system. Charge them up in the apartment and bring two to the garage. Rechargeable shop light and I can mostly do without the extension cord....

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    2,139

    Default

    I agree with everything that has been posted and I'm going to recommend some reading first before you start stocking the shed. There are other books to but I like this one. It is comprehensive easy to read and covers most areas of building you are likely to encounter including tools, the ones you buy and those you can make yourself.

    Don't be put off by the title.

    How to Build Glued-Lapstrake Wooden Boats-Woodenboat Publications

    Then when you have selected your plans take each task and make a tool decision based on what is required and the likelyhood of you using the tool in the future. I have found buying cheap is not always the way to go but it does depend on the tool. Anyway you have found this forum and I think you will find there is a thread on just about any tool you are likely to need with many expert opinions to base your decisions on.

    If you are like the rest of us you will be hooked and it won't be the last boat you build. You will then become not only a wooden boat nut but a tool junky as well.

    Mike

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    129

    Default

    I have a ridiculous collection of hand tools, electric tools and machinery, however the handiest one is this :
    Japanese Compound Saw Guide Kit : CARBA-TEC

    Simple, quick, cuts neat and clean. Often used on site for small joinery bits&pieces - skirtings, architraves, quad, door stops, etc. Lives behind the seat in the ute, so there's no need to drag out power tools and leads for something small. Very handy inside the boat so I don't have to keep climbing in and out, up and down just to trim a piece to length.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    Cordless tools are nice, but generally are more costly and are, how should I say, "weak in the knees" compared to corded tools, plus corded tools don't lose a charge. Given your building site has limited power, maybe cordless should be given more credit, save the extension cord for some lights. Speaking of extension cords, you only need one for you and one for the light. You can't have enough light by the way.


    I too have more hand and power tools then a person should be allowed to own. I find I use the belt sander for many things besides rough flattening of surfaces. I mount it both horizontally and on it's side in a vice and round corners off stuff or maybe remove some finish on a piece. A good jig saw is handy with plywood. A circular saw can double for a table saw in a pinch with a straight edge to run the saw's shoe against. A drill, with a 3/8" chuck. I like the keyless chuck for a light drill, but they can't grip as well as a regular chuck. Come finishing time you'll want a good DA orbital sander. The real finishing part will be by hand, the DA is an intermediate tool, but a time saver.

    You can buy cheapo chisels, they just need to be sharpened more often. Learn how to put a good edge on them, it saves so much frustration working with a sharp edge. Planes are those things you can go insane on. I've made them, bought them and search them out in swap meets. Once you learn how to use them, they're great. A cabinet scraper is one of the best tools you can buy or make. They'll smooth wood like no other tool (power or hand) and can be very helpful with epoxy too.

    With taped seam builds, like the ones you're contemplating, fine wood working skills aren't really necessary. Taped seam (stitch and glue) Is actually the fine art of wood butchery. Your plywood joints don't have to be tight, in fact it's better if they're not. The epoxy and tape will "fix" all errors. The only places you need to watch what you're doing is on pieces that will be varnished. Everything else can have a pound or two of thickened epoxy hiding the sins of a novice wood butcher's attempts at measuring twice and cutting three times (or something like that).

    If they have swap meets or flee markets in your area, maybe a garage sale, see if you can score on some recently deceased fellow's tool stash. Often a man will pass on and the tools end up in a garage sale for next to nothing, because the two daughters and wife haven't a clue what to do with them. I got a nice table saw for $50 this way once, the widow had no idea what it was worth and asked for $25, I felt guilty and gave her the $50.

    Good tools are an investment, but the average guy doesn't need anywhere near this quality of tool. A "homeowners" brand will do in most cases. If you plan on building many things and never want to buy a particular tool again, there are some really nice professional tools, but again, they are for serious work over decades of use and will make you cry if it falls of the back of a truck traveling at highway speeds, because these tools cost 10 times as much as the cheap tool. For example I have a $500 saw that I use fairly frequently, but you can get a similar saw for $50 at the local hardware store. Guess which one you wouldn't want to replace.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    You can often reduce the need for clamps by getting a good cordless drill with a clutch and reverse. Get it with two battery packs.

    For sanders ... Random orbit or direct drive random orbit - cut faster for finishing wood/glass, epoxy, paint, whatever.

    Get at least an old vacuum cleaner or shop vac to attach your power tools to - makes everything last longer and work easier.

    Epoxy FAQ - Cordless Drill - Michael Storer Boat Design - Wooden Boat Plans

    The list of tools in my plans is
    cordless driver
    Random Orbit sander
    Jigsaw
    a hand plane - #4 is a good basic - for a second plane a block plane makes the best sense.
    couple of chisels
    about 4 G-cramps
    a bunch or two of spring clamps - the metal welder's type ones are great.
    after that is is just pencils and rulers and lots of sandpaper.

    The bias here is towards small boats using modern methods.

    MIK

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Kettering, Tasmania
    Posts
    492

    Default

    I'd add to this;

    Ryobi variable temperature heat gun (Bunnings moonah about $65) great for cleaning up epoxy and lowering epoxy viscosity when wetting out cloth in cooler weather.

    Paint scraper for use with the the heat gun for cleaning up epoxy dags.

    Good chemical respirator for working with epoxy ( we use Sundstrom brand - try the Fibreglass shop in Argyle St Hobart)

    Don't go too mad on clamps - you can use chipboard screws as temporary clamps whilst the glue sets.

    A low angle block plane would be just about essential and a stone to sharpen it with. Have a look at Home of fine antique tools & stanley planes or Home of fine old tools for some second hand tools at reasonable prices. If you are going on to build other boats, go and buy a decent one like one of these Veritas® Low Angle Block Plane : CARBA-TEC or these Lie-Nielsen Toolworks Australia | Adjustable Mouth Block Planes.
    you will never regret owning one of these
    As far as chisels go, you can pick up a real cheapy from the tool guy at Salamanca on Saturday for about $5-10 bucks - probably a 1" bevel edge would be fine.

    Probably one of the most useful power tools besides those mentioned would be a laminate trimmer and a set of basic 1/4" router bits. You should be able to pick up a unit for under $100 and a set of bits for 20-$30 bucks.

    Trade Tools Direct in Lampton avenue ( see TradeTools Direct - Serious Tools...Seriously Discounted! ) have some good but cheap gear and sell all the top brands.

    Don't spend too much on tools to begin with - you will see what you need along the way.

    regards,

    AD
    www.denmanmarine.com.au
    Australian agent for Swallow Boats, Bruynzeel Multipanel Plywood and Barton Marine Products

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    South Oz, the big smokey bit in the middle
    Age
    67
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    I wouldn't 'tool up' to build your boat at all.

    Just buy stuff as you need it.

    If you can borrow or use someone else's, do so with the big money items, because you may discover that you don't actually need it afterall.

    Cheap works, but only up to a point. I bought a Bosch cordless drill because I've seen how hard those things work and knew I'd be using it a lot. My most used chisel is only a cheap old thing I was given as a kid, but it gets used for cleaning up old epoxy and all sorts of horrid things. When I started doing joinery that it wasn't up to, even when sharp, I bought a good set of chisels just for joinery ... but that was nearly 6 years after starting this boat building caper. My low angle block plane is your standard Stanley and gets used a lot, my No 4 was rescued from a junk sale - I'd love a nice, expensive new one but the old girl just keeps doing the job so I spend the money on epoxy.

    Clamps? Some people like them, some like screws. I personally dislike filling screw holes and so will always use a clamp by preference but don't hesitate to reach for a screw if needed. But which clamps? I see a lot of spring clamps being used but they don't work real well for me - I've got a few though and they have their place. Good F clamps are better, not the elcheapo jobs but the next level up because they've got better pads on the bits that bite and nice, thick, soft handles so you can really screw on the pressure if you have to. How many? I just buy a couple more if I find I need them so the collection has grown ... and stabilised. Forget Quickclamps, useless things that bugger up as soon as you put any real pressure on them. I've also a big box of home made clamps that do a brilliant job (just two bits of wood, bolt in the middle and a wedge for one end).

    I've got a Triton 'table saw' that started with my dad's old, small circular saw until I finally realised it was worth buying a bigger saw ... which I bought but because it doesn't get used a hell of a lot, I bought a GMC saw - the unit is still a lot cheaper than buying a decent table saw.

    I've got a thicknesser, just the bottom end Ryobi but it was cheap and does everything I need.

    I've a mate who has neither, was seriously looking at buying a proper table saw and thicknesser, but was given a number 7 plane and does all his thicknessing by hand. He also realised that very little of the timber he works with needs much ripping, so he bought an elcheapo table saw (about $100) and rigged up a decent fence for it. On the rare occasions he needs something more brutal, he knows he can bring the timber to my place. Saved himself thousands on perceived needs that didn't eventuate.

    The message is - forget tool lists, just go buy what you need, when you need it. If you're convinced you need good quality, buy it but boat building is horrid work and cheap is often good value too - if you break it real quick, buy better next time, but it's foolish to buy top end plane and then use it to knock down fully set epoxy, the old Stanley does that just as well (or my no-name brand) and there's not a lot of 'fine' working on a boat anyway.

    Richard
    Heretic

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eustis, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    A neat trick is to convince the other half the importance of tools and how happy they'll make you. She'll come home with a power planner for a birthday or a set of chisels at Christmas. Of course leaving tool catalogs lieing around with items circled in bright red ink is a helpfull hint when necessary. This is part of the fore thought and planning that goes into boat building.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    ashton
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PAR View Post
    A neat trick is to convince the other half the importance of tools and how happy they'll make you. She'll come home with a power planner for a birthday or a set of chisels at Christmas. Of course leaving tool catalogs lieing around with items circled in bright red ink is a helpfull hint when necessary. This is part of the fore thought and planning that goes into boat building.
    Yeah this is pretty much my tactic.

    By the way I am turning 30 next week so if anyone wants to buy me a table saw

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PAR View Post
    A neat trick is to convince the other half the importance of tools and how happy they'll make you. She'll come home with a power planner for a birthday or a set of chisels at Christmas. Of course leaving tool catalogs lieing around with items circled in bright red ink is a helpfull hint when necessary. This is part of the fore thought and planning that goes into boat building.
    There is a further game you can play with catalogues. Shorty who thought up the whole PDRacer concept was getting grief from his wife about all the boat stuff. So he started looking in Ultralight Aircraft building magazines and catalogues and leaving them lying around.

    His wife started to ask him "I thought you were interested in boats?" .... "Why don't you think about building a boat".

    Now some 5 years later his whole family have been involved in all sorts of crazy boatbuilding and boating activities. Including a couple of little girls running away with an annual paper canoe building race.

    Here are Shorty's girl scouts demolishing the fleet in their blue boat. They had done lots of practice paddling in wind and going around and around buoys.

    MIK

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hobart, TAS
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks for the replies. To those who mentioned not tooling up and buying as I go, I agree. However, since my tool collection is limited to motorcycle maintenance tools (screwdrivers, wrenches, vice grips) I'll need a few basic wood tools right off the bat. A few questions to expand on certain tools:


    1. Power saws. I will be cutting ply panels into various hull shapes. I don't have room for a big table, so a temp table will be set-up with saw horses. Which is easier &/or more effective for cutting the hull pieces: circular, jig, or sabre? I will probably need to scarf some lumber at some point too....
    2. Planes for scarfing ply, fairing edges, etc. These are something I've never used before. Smoothing and block planes look similar to my untrained eye. Is one more "all-purpose" for boats, such that I need only buy one to start?
    3. Japanese handsaws. Seems to be dozens of types with different teeth styles/sizes. They are relatively cheap, so I don't mind buying a couple, but where to start?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Age
    71
    Posts
    631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borneogoat View Post
    T

    1. Power saws. I will be cutting ply panels into various hull shapes. I don't have room for a big table, so a temp table will be set-up with saw horses. Which is easier &/or more effective for cutting the hull pieces: circular, jig, or sabre? I will probably need to scarf some lumber at some point too....
    2. Planes for scarfing ply, fairing edges, etc. These are something I've never used before. Smoothing and block planes look similar to my untrained eye. Is one more "all-purpose" for boats, such that I need only buy one to start?
    3. Japanese handsaws. Seems to be dozens of types with different teeth styles/sizes. They are relatively cheap, so I don't mind buying a couple, but where to start?
    A small circular saw can be 'fenced' to cut dead straight lines, but will also cut 'fair' curves, within limits. But for tight radiuses you will need a jigsaw. To clean up the edges you may need a sander, or a plane, spokeshave or a router- choice down to budget and skills.

    If I had to live with only one plane it would be a hard choice between a low angled block plane or a #4 bench or smoothing plane, but both of these tools need to be set up carefully before use, and that means learning how to sharpen. (although you can put that off for a while if you pay extra for an elite tool like a Lie Neilson which is already in working order when you take it out of the box). The block plane is really versatile and light, and since most of your work will be on edges rather than surfaces, it's probably the winner (IMHO). It'll do scarfs in your ply too, just a wee bit slower than a bench plane will, because it's easier to use all your upper body strength through both hands with a benchy. See Bloggsy's links above for these tools.

    When looking for a plane for one of my sons, I ultimately did the rounds of second-hand and tool shops to find an old Stanley #4, with wooden handles (I like 'em). We then set to, flattening the bottom, re-setting the frog and bought a new blade ('plane iron'), flattened the back of that and then gave it the treatment with water stones etc. These things are worth learning how to do because you then have a tool that will not only work better, but you will know it and understand it's workings too. You may even give it a name and have a beer with it after work on Fridays.

    I've never used the Japanese pull saws, but everyone tells me they are better than sliced bread, but I have no need to change old habits. For my boat I bought a fairly economical thin cross-cut handsaw from the hardware store, to save my nice tenon saws for non-epoxy work, and it was terrific, plastic handle and all.

    Hope there is something here of use
    Rob
    What caused the Pacific War? A book to read: here

    http://middlething.blogspot.com/

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lathe Tooling
    By glock40sw in forum METALWORK FORUM
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 13th August 2007, 08:39 AM
  2. Need tooling for mill
    By antoni in forum METALWORK FORUM
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 29th July 2007, 10:11 PM
  3. HSS/carbide tooling
    By metaboman in forum METALWORK FORUM
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11th April 2007, 05:04 PM
  4. CNC Routers and Tooling
    By StaySharp in forum ANNOUNCEMENTS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19th January 2006, 12:21 PM
  5. spindle moulder tooling
    By Boatman in forum JOINTERS, MOULDERS, THICKNESSERS, ETC
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 7th February 2004, 10:28 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •