Thread: Trailer Loading Problem

I restored a 1964 25' Lyman hardtop (sleeper) a few years ago and had a similar issue.

The stem is too delicate to accept a traditional bow eye fitting. It'll compromise the stem if it's drilled. You may consider a bonded hole for the fitting (over size, filled with epoxy then re-drilled). This will return most of the strength to the stem, but it's still fairly delicate.

I suspect your boat has lifting eyes about a meter aft of the stem? this will be connected to the keel with a bronze (probably 3/4") rod. This is a natural hard point to reinforce the bow eye fitting. I debated doing this to the 1964, but eventually elected to leave it original.

What I was going to do is drill the stem for an eye fitting, but using couplers, extend the shank of the eye back to the steamer eye rod and make up a fitting to attach to it (a T fitting that slides over the lifting eye rod). It would have looked normal, with the new parts being under the V berth.


This would prevent the stem from having it's joints tested each time a load was put on the bow eye.

Another option would be to use a strap to tie the gripe and other pieces of the stem together, hopefully preventing them from separating under bow eye loading.

The reason this is important is this is a very traditional stem construction. If the joints open just a little bit, the all the stopwaters will no longer be able to do their jobs and you'll have leaks (at least). Once the stem pieces start to move, the hood ends of the planks will move and the gains will begin to leak, etc., etc., etc.

Thanks Par
u have confirmed my fears. I just took a look at the interior of the stem. There are two,port and starboard, (not sure of the proper name) horizonal runners that are attached to the ribs that extend from the transom to about 3 ribs from the stem.

What if I entended these to the stem and tied the extensions to the original runners for strength. I could fabricate a v shaped plate with eye hook and connect to the extensions thru the hull. It would seem that the load would be distributed along the length of the boat and I could avoid drilling the stem?

If anyone one else has some thoughts please chim in...thanks to all

Take your trailer to your local welders and get them to mount the winch at the right height

Richard

In-haul bridle connecting the lifting eyes, or other deck fittings further aft. Make it long enough to clear the stem with the hook engaged at midpoint. Use nylon webbing to reduce wear on the gunwales as hauling proceeds, and the bridle moves downward.

Try with rope first, to verify geometry.

Cheers,
Joe

The stringers you refer to can't be easily extended and are cut off where they are because the forefoot of the boat is rapidly turning up towards the stem in this area and you just run out of room for them to live.

Maybe a metal bracket, but again the stem can't be stressed or it will leak like a bottomless bucket.

I've done a fair bit of study about launching issues. My area is very shoal and getting on and off the trailer can test you if things don't work well.

The biggest problem is the orientation of the boat with the trailer at the point of floating. The trailer is sitting on a ramp between 6 and 10 degrees from horizontal. This drops the aft rollers and bunks, but the forward rollers lift up the bow, until the trailer is deep enough to let the boat float free. Ever notice how the bow seems to rise in relation to the trailer when you haul out? This is because the trailer is 6 degrees down at the stern and the boat floating free.

This is most often noticed at the bow eye. The further away from the LWL the eye is located, the worse this affect becomes and the more difficult to get the boat to land square on the trailer and remain there as it's hauled up the ramp. I've seen a number of different "devices" that attempted to deal with this issue, which isn't much of a problem on a small boat that you can man handle at the ramp. It's on a big boat that you just can't winch it up tight and hope for the best. Trust me, you'll just snatch the bow eye right out of the stem. The same is true if you try to winch in high up, say at deck level. Again on a small boat this isn't a big deal as it'll bounce around and can be shoved by hand to get it to set where you want it. I'd like to see someone try this with my 27' lapstrake powerboat. You ain't pushing squat, she is either on, or you have to try again buddy.

Okay, all this, so how do you fix it. Control the bow of the boat, the stern will follow, when on the water and set the boat up on the trailer bow down.

I know this sounds silly and trust me it looks a little silly, but it's the best way, especially if you have a big, difficult to control boat.

Mount the boat on the trailer with as much a bow down attitude as you can. Most of the time this is less then your average ramp, but it helps. Make sure you have a few rollers directly under the forward most sections of the bow and just aft of this. These will be the places that the boat will attempt to "center stand" as you back in and the stern starts to float. It's better they're on a roller then the actual trailer tongue.

You'll want a V shaped guide near the bow, say about 25% of the boat length aft of the stem. Set the V angle a few degrees less then the boat's deadrise in this area so it only contacts the keel, not the bottom planks. This will keep the bow centered over the trailer and guide it down as it hauled out. It would be nice if you had stern guides too, which will keep the boat from getting on the trailer crooked. Set these tighter then the beam of the boat, at the location they'll live. This applies slight pressure, pushing the boat forward, so it doesn't float aft and off the bow guide.

If you have rollers directly under the bow, you don't need a bow chock (the V shaped rubber the fits on the winch stand), so long as the boat is resting, well supported on the bunks and rollers (don't use rollers on wooden planks only keels).

The only thing left is a way of moving the boat forward into position and holding it there until you haul it out. The common method is a winch to a bow eye. If the bow eye is very near the LWL then you'll have little trouble. If it isn't then you might want to consider a bridle or other type of "catch" to hold the boat. It just needs to stay where you want it, until the weight of the boat is resting firmly on the trailer. Most importantly it must be able to rotate with the boat, as the bow rises during the haul out and should preferably be flexible so you don't snatch anything off the boat.

On my Chris Craft, I just use a pin that fits in a rod holder hole on the side deck, that also grabs my aft guide pole. The boat can dance around with wave action, moving forward or aft an inch or two each way, but that's it. The guides (I use a catch in both guides) applies pressure once they're bent and shoves the boat back where it belongs, until I get it dragged out of the water. I know you're thinking a cheap plastic guide (I use schedule 80 electrical conduit) is all that holding your boat to the trailer. Yep, that's right and of course the neat thing about gravity, always pulling the same direction thingie, which I'm relying on as well.

Once the bunks press against the bottom of the boat, there's more then enough friction to keep it from going anywhere. The bunks "engage" the bottom as soon as I start to pull the boat out.

I'll look around for some pictures, but picture taking as it's going in or coming out are pretty rare.

How often do you load, launch?

A friend has a 22' CrisCraft and he has a lonnnnnnnnnnng nylon
strap that goes all the way around the boat with a padded bar at
the transom to keep it from crushing inward. It has a few lines
over the boat to keep it in place. They are just poly ski rope. It
works very well and he can do it by himself.

The Chris lives on a trailer. With an older trailer I used to have bunks peaking out past the transom, which worked out well as I drilled a 1.5" hole in the end of each, right near the end. I used a boat hook and stuck the knob in the hole after I was on the trailer. This held the boat fine, until she was hauled out.

I've seen people use bridles like the one you describe, but I consider them impractical in a larger boat, preferring to have something quick, easy and snag proof. I've also seen spring or floating toggles that catch the bottom of the transom as it floats past during loading. These catch the transom and fold down as the trailer and boat come together during the haul out.

Thanks for all your suggestions...Im leaning toward raising the winch to deck level and connecting to the haul out eye.. Mainly to avoid altering the boat in any way, I only need about 6-8 inches to hit the bow stop.

Will also add a v shaped roller under the forward keel to help center the bow when loading. I think the combination of the higher winch location and the roller will do the job

I have had a suggestion to spray some slippery stuff on the bunks or install glides on the bunks...any thoughts on that?

Do NOT attempt to slide a wooden boat on the bunks or across rollers. This is the fastest way to pop butt blocks or scarfs, spring planks and rip out planking fasteners that I can think of, short of a hammer. Skip the slippery spray, your boat needs to float onto the trailer and the trailer needs to fit the boat.

The bow is 6" away from your winch tower because as the trailer and boat come together during the haul out at the ramp, the winch tower is standing up right from the ramp incline and pulls away from the boat. This is normal and can't be avoided if the bow chock is very far from the LWL.

To prevent this, the bow chock needs to be pretty much right at the LWL. I usually use rollers at this location as they can bear weight, which a chock doesn't do very well. On a bigger boat the winch doesn't wrench the boat up onto the bunks, like it does a smaller boat. It's job is just to move the boat the last few inches into position so that it will remain on the trailer during the haul out. A fixed length strap will do the same thing. The winch strap or cable should have some length to it, so it can pivot up as the bow rises and have enough radius in it's length from the winch, that it will let the boat swing away from the winch tower if necessary (it usually is).

Par thanks for all of your help. Some of what you are saying is over my head. What is LWL? Here is my assement of what I have been doing wrong and why I have reached the conclusions I have to move the winch up which may not be needed if using a proper procedure.

I have loaded this boat twice at the same ramp..And ramps vary...this one is shallow. Both times I believe the trailer was not in deep enough and prevented contact with the bow chock. Mainly because I didn't want to submerge the rear axle of the tow vehicle. If submerging the axle is not going to damage it then I believe I can float the boat up to the bow chock even at this ramp without any winch help..

If I can't go deeper then I need some winch help and the current configuration is counter productive (pulls the bow down into the forward bunks) and needs to be altered or assisted. A bow roller may by itself provide enough lift on the front end to power that last 6 inches? No rollers or slippery stuff on the bunks.

If I understand what you are telling me is that regardless of how I get the boat in position the stern of the boat will be above the bunks and as I pull the boat from the water the stern will drop to the bunks and the bow will rise. That requires some slack in the bow line prior to pull out.

Next comes preventing the stern from twisting on the trailer. This could be accomplished by straping the stern to the trailer and/or beam post guide ons at the rear.

What about moving the winch tower toward the boat leaving @ 6" overhang at the stern? Whats with me and the bow chock? I have trailered the boat 800 miles with the bow not contacting the bow chock and some overhang (a few inches) in the rear. No detectable damage.

Any advice should take into consideration I am 72...I want to load and unload by myself...I have a limited budget for alterations

Thanks again to all

LWL is Load Water Line.

Your rear axle can be submerged without harm, though if you do this in saltwater a lot, it will cause problems. The solution is to rinse the underside of your car when you get home, to wash off the salt and mineral deposits.

Getting the trailer deep enough is a common problem and the usual method to deal with it is a tongue extension for the trailer. A welding shop can lengthen your tongue easily and cheaply. If you can lay down a good bead, you can do it.

You understand the issues fairly well, though the boat's stern doesn't drop down and meet the bunks at an angle, the boat is being pulled from the water, attached to the inclined trailer at the bow. As the tow come up the ramp, the boat remains level and the trailer remains inclined. The bow emerges from the water resting solely on the trailer, but the stern is still floating. This is why I like to use rollers directly under the bow, usually on the trailer's tongue. The boat's weight progressively settles to the trailer, bow to stern as the rig is dragged up the ramp. At some point (generally about half way out) the amount of weight on the trailer is more then the immersed potion can displace in water, so it no longer floats and adopts whatever angle the trailer permits. It's at this point that the bow seems to rise up dramatically.

Preventing the boat from settling on trailer crooked, is a pain in the butt. I've noticed this is usually because the ramp is twisted or the trailer isn't square on the ramp (backed in at an angle). The only thing you can count on at a ramp is the boat will float level, everything else is a crap shoot.

As you back the rig in, keep an eye on the guides and fenders, you're looking to insure they're reasonably level. Some times you can move to a more level part of the ramp. Other occasions you can maneuver the trailer to level things up as you back in.

Don't strap the stern to the guides, you'll just break something, like the guides or whatever they where attached to. If the guides are set up tight, so they are physically pinching the boat when it's on the trailer, they will tend to center the boat on the trailer as it's being pulled out.

On your boat, if memory serves me correctly, the engine beds should be about 24" apart. This is also where I would put the bunks on the trailer. Now this isn't where you normally see the bunks, which are usually further apart, but on your boat this is where they should be, because these two engine beds are the longitudinal stiffeners for the hull.

The trailer shown is the one I setup for the Lyman I mentioned in the previous post. In fact, these photos were taken a few days before I loaded the boat, so the fenders and other accessories have been removed so I can slide the trailer under the hoisted up boat (the transom of this boat is just visible in the upper left corner of the first photo.

These bunks are 12' long pieces of 4"x8" cypress and they've been cut to match the changing deadrise on the bottom. They also extend a few inches aft of the transom to provide complete support. Not doing this will cause what we term as a "hook" and it can kill the performance of a boat. These two pieces of timber are really what supports the bulk of the boat's weight.

Mounted outboard of these timbers are two "teeter totter" supports. These are home made and don't really bear much weight, but do prevent the boat from rolling off the narrow bunk spacing. Of course I have a few rollers along the centerline where they'll support he bow and one under the skeg. The V guide forward doesn't have it's PVC sheathing yet, but the angle is set. At the very center of this V guide is a thick piece of HDPE to keep the keel from bashing the metal.

This trailer doesn't show the modified winch stand, which is 4' taller then shown. It's modified role was to prevent the boat from floating too far forward, and that's about it, which id did with a large bow chock.

Had this problem myself after much thought came up with solution of 3mm stainless strip along keel screwed on with long heavy gauge screws at the bow had a shaped plate welded on at 90deg with a shackle for winch hook, lowered the angle totally to winch and pulled on the keel/deadwood thus not straining stem at all.Hope it helps your problem