Thread: 12-16' Multipurpose Boat

Hi again. Forgot to mention that I am open to any other design, but they need to be relatively straight-forward to build.

Regards

Ken

Welsford designs seem to sail well but my experience with the designer and from extensive research with other builders of his designs cautions me against him.

The boat I built was the Tender Behind. The plans were riddled with errors. Yes, mistakes can be made but these plans had more than I consider reasonable. Additionally, they could have been easily corrected but hadn't been and, when I reported them to the designer (politely), in three seperate emails (for different issues), they were brushed aside as of no consequence. The construction method is highly dependent on accurate cutting of parts - the plans do not allow this. The construction method is unnecessarily complicated and heavy - it's just his bigger boats scaled down ... and it's not a lot better for the bigger boats.

So, you might think, one person had problems with what is now an old set of plans.

Wrong. I've spoken to well over twenty Welsford builders over the years and every one of them suffered similar problems to a lesser or larger extent. I personally don't consider that acceptable, particularly from plans you had to pay for. Yes, I have worked with plans from other designers, a 14 footer and a 20 footer from David Payne without these same issues. I'm a long time fan of Iain Oughtred and have mixed with builders of his boats for some years, without these issues.

BUT, you might say, you managed to finish your Tender Behind. Yes I did. It was a far harder build than it needed to be and I could not have finished it had I not done a boat building course at TAFE and learnt how to make parts from the boat rather than from the drawings - for instance, the plank patterns provided were useless and I wound up spiling every plank. The sheer line as defined by the frames had an ugly reverse curve to it and I lowered it in the centre by over an inch.

But yes, I do have the wee boatie in the water ... it's the boat Redback you see mentioned from time on these forums. So, how does it work? Well, after all that ####, I expected to have a boat that did what it was supposed to do ... and it does sort of, pity that to row the boat on my own, I need to fit another set of rowlocks six inches behind the rear set shown on the plans. In fact, the rear rowlocks only work properly when I've got someone of the order of 70kg sitting on the rear seat (yes, I have proven this in practice). Normally, I row it by sitting too close to the oars and use a restricted stroke. Why don't I fit another set or rowlocks? Because the correct position for them falls into a gap in the ladder inwales and I can't be stuffed messing about even more with the damned thing. Goodness knows when you'd ever use the front rowlocks. How does she sail? It seems to work but considering it is far heavier than the Nutshell which is more or less an equivalent boat ... well ...

Lots of Welsford boats have been built. There are lots of happy owners out there and I certainly wouldn't argue with one of them - experiences vary. That is why there are also a lot of unhappy building stories as well, but people tend not to talk about these. I suspect his larger craft work better than his tiny ones but I know of too many problems with his larger stuff too.

My personal recommendation is that if you want a 'simple' stich and glue type boat, talk to our Mik. If you want lapstrake, go to David Payne or Iain Oughtred. Don't be scared of a lapstrake boat, a proper one does not take much longer to build, nor is it difficult. Planking the hull is only a small part of the overall build so don't be put off by it.

Richard

Originally Posted by KRH

Hi again. Forgot to mention that I am open to any other design, but they need to be relatively straight-forward to build.

Regards

Ken

Welsford's boats are not relatively straight forward to build. Talk to Mik. His boats are easy to build, elegant in a simple way and work very well.

Richard

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, because I always sound like the president of the Boatmik fan club, which I'm not, but he is a mate after all!

Twelve years ago, I had the same brief as you:

My requirement is a general purpose boat in the 12-16 foot range to be used for sailing and suitable for a small 5-15hp outboat for fishing.

I had lots of sailing experience, and all of the boats that seemed to fit that description at the time seemed inordinately heavy, like the Hartley and GlenL boats, all fine in their own way, but designed in another era.

I looked at Bolger and others, and fortunately for me, Michael Storer produced the Goat Island Skiff about that time. I was attraced by the thought of dropping in an old Lazer rig, but ended up building the lug rig version, and I don't know of anyone who has used the lazer sail.

Presumably the Mirror rig could be made to work just as easily.

I've rowed mine a bit, and mucked around generally, and on the website there are pictures of David Graybeal's boat under power. David hasn't actually built a sailing rig yet, and has been using his as a utility boat while fishing and building on a lake.

The boat is a huge 16 footer, very simple to build and very rewarding in terms of performance and appearance.

I still reckon there's room in his portfolio for a 12 and 14 foot version of it, but don't talk to me talk to Mik about that!

I know there are dozens of designs in this range, but I'm yet to find a simpler one to build. It simply isn't possible, and if it was it wouldn't look as good, nor would it perform any better!!

End of promo.

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, because I always sound like the president of the Boatmik fan club, which I'm not, but he is a mate after all!

Weren't you at the AGM?

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

Weren't you at the AGM?

Richard

Actually, no. (Which is how I think I got elected!)

P

Hi Ken,

I have just been through the same exercise of trying to find a multi purpose boat along the same idea as you have described. I have ordered and recieved plans for a Phoenix III by Ross Lillistone of Bayside boats. Check out the website http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/. The plans(24 A3 pages of detailed drawings) for the Phoenix are outstanding as far as I'm concerned. Every detail you could think of is included along with a 50 odd page building manual. The boat is a lapstrake design, is 15ft x 4ft 6in x 6in, and carries 104 sq ft of sail in an unstayed sprit/sloop rig. Is easily rowered and has a motor well for a small outboard.

I plan to start the boat in the new year.

That Phoenix is a neat little boat. Am I right in thinking it was in Australian Amateur Boat Buggerer recently?

Richard

You would be correct. It was in the last issue. By all accounts it is a great little boat to build and sail. I was just going over the plans again and I'm still amazed at the amout of detail Ross has put into them. They are simple and easy to follow even for a beginner like myself.

I'll have a close look at the Goat Island Skiff, and the Pheonix. Both are along the lines I'm looking for.

Many thanks for your comments and advice.

Ken

Howdy Ken,

While it may be possible to fit the Mirror rig to a number of different boats the optimum experience with each will be with the rigs they were designed to take.

Another advantage of the designed rigs is that many boats of the style you are talking about use a freestanding mast. This makes rigging and unrigging the boat very fast and easy. People brought up on stays, headsails and jib fairleads etc often don't see how the boats go together so quickly on the beach.

Basically just have to drop the mast in and hoist the sail - and push off the shore.

MIK

Thanks MIK

I gathered that after further reading of some excellent arcticles about the GIS (and Pheonix). I know little about sails and rigging but I am learning fast. I'll go with the recommended rig of the boat I select.

Decisions, decisions.

Regards

Ken

Here's one that might fit the bill and is a little unique:

http://boatplans.dk/mo-dutch.asp?level=n

Hi all

I have finally selected the next boat - ordered plans this morning.

It was a close call between the GIS and the Pheonix III but in the end Ross Lillistone's design won the day. Both are nice boats but I was really taken with the flowing lines of the Pheonix and the classic lapstrake hull.

I'll keep the forum posted as the build progresses.

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions.

Ken