Thread: 18' (5.5m) Sail boat - Which one?

Aberdeen,
Does it need to be self righting and with or without cabin?

Mike

Mike
Preferably untippable

Self righting and cabin to get out of the sun, cook the fish and let the ladies have some privacy if and when required if you know what I mean.

The 'Vixen' is still a GO.... but before I GO any further I need to consider if this is the way to GO in the present climate so to speak..... next week I get on with her UNLESS a good option or persuasive argument presents itself....... but have to be careful....just don't want Daddles to think he has... corrupted my Hartley mind too much....

NB - I have an ex work collegue that makes sails as a hobby/therapy

Originally Posted by Aberdeen

NB - I have an ex work collegue that makes sails as a hobby/therapy

Ah now thats a handy thing to know

Originally thinking you couldn't go past Miks GIS for the reasons you listed but all boats are a compromise hence my questions. Needs some thought but if you go just little longer there are many alternatives but then you start offsetting expense and build difficulties.
Local examples could also be a bit limiting especially in ply. I assume you have considered NIS

Cheers

Mike
I have so many links to different boat building sites it would probably take me 6 months to ferret out those of interest....

I hope to spend the remainder of this first week of holidays narrowing down things a bit.... worse than a menu at the local chinese restaurant for choices........

Norfolk Island is one of the first I want to re-visit tonight... nothing much on tele anyway....... but do like the look of the Sharpie 18

Limitations: shed is only 18 x 24 feet leaving little room for machinery to build one.... can't have a bigger shed until I retire (approval already given by SWMBO)

Glen, get together with me and spend some time in Redback. Learn to sail (or spend more time under sail if you can) and get used to it.

The reason I'm suggesting this is that I'm beginning to suspect that while I like sailing, it doesn't have that magic bite it has for some, hence my constant mucking about with row boats and my completely ignoring paddles - the magic for me seems to involve oars. I took my wee boatie over to Stansbury and in perfect sailing conditions, spent as much time under oars as I did under sail

In your case, maybe a putt putt or a pure power boat is the go. You'll have more room in the cabin in a power boat than a sail boat.

If you're really serious about trying sail on that scale, a mate of mine has an 18ft f/glass trailer sailer that he doesn't get to use much because his missus discovered (after much trying) that she doesn't like boating. I'm sure we could get together with him and go out in the gulf one afternoon and to be honest, the two of us coercing him into giving it a go would be welcomed by him more than anything else.

Sailing (and probably all forms of boating) is very much in the 'you have to do it before you know' camp and I reckon gathering experience is more important than looking at plans. Hell, you could even make me an offer for Sixpence

Richard

Am I wrong in thinking (having just spent some time looking at sail boat pictures) that the work involved in sailing is far greater than turning key?

Rigging - hanging over the side - raising & lowering those keel thingies - winding chrome handled ratchets... etc......

Started to consider my poor old back and it's continual problems, hmmm..... might go for a stroll along the coast during the week and browse some of the yacht places.... West Beach, Outer Harbour and the like....

Oh I hate indecision........

Have been to NIS now off to Glen-L http://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=2

You get an 18 footer and you're dealing with standing rigging, ropes and stuff and looking at half an hour setting up to go sailing.

You go for any boat that needs rigging to hold the mast up (any sloop for example) and you increase the mucking about before you hit the water.

Now some people like all the mucking about with wires and ropes and stuff, but methinks you're a bit more laid back.

Sixpence is being set up to use a drop in mast (oh okay, two of them in this case) and simple sail that takes a few minutes to raise. She's 14' and will carry a couple of passengers in reasonable comfort.

The GIS is 15' and uses a similar mast and sail - you're on the water in minutes. The difference being, you're sitting either on the floor or on the gunwale, not relaxing on those wide, comfy seats. Mind you, the GIS will also sail rings around Sixpence.

The point is, in that 14-16 foot range, you can get boats that can hit the water quickly. Go beyond that and you've got to accept a lot of mucking about. The decision is then do you want a fast, exciting boat to sail that can also be sailed with calm decorum (such as the GIS) but accept that your missus will be sitting on the floor (not her style I would have thought), or do you accept a more sedate but more stately ride - do you buy the E-type Jag or the Mk2 saloon (the comparison is deliberate because just as the Mk2 could be damned quick, so can the more stately boats).

I reckon something like Sixpence would be ideal. You can sail her quickly and easily, you can leave the sails behind and fire up the outboard. Your missus will be comfortable and dry and you can still play boy racer but don't expect to challenge Mik in his GIS. Even the 'complication' of the extra sail (the mizzen) was chosen to make life easier on the water.

Richard

The other thing to remember is that although boats shrink once they hit the water (that ocean liner in the garage turns out to be rather tiny on the water), the smaller and easier a boat is to use, the more likely you are to use it. Lots of trailer sailers spend their weekends in the driveway because it's just too much like hard work getting them out on the water. Mind you, if you have a permanent mooring ...

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

If you're really serious about trying sail on that scale, a mate of mine has an 18ft f/glass trailer sailer that he doesn't get to use much because his missus discovered (after much trying) that she doesn't like boating. I'm sure we could get together with him and go out in the gulf one afternoon and to be honest, the two of us coercing him into giving it a go would be welcomed by him more than anything else.

Good idea, in the same line of thinking a good old Hartley TS16 you can pick up cheap these days might need a bit of fixing up but is a forgiving boat with a bit of comfort to learn in. After having a play decide on the boat to build.

We'll have you totally confused before the day is out

Mike

Originally Posted by Aberdeen

Am I wrong in thinking (having just spent some time looking at sail boat pictures) that the work involved in sailing is far greater than turning key?

Ahh but the rewards are far greater too.

Gliding silently along takes some beating. Yes, there's work to do, but the journey really is a fabulous experience! (mostly!)

Cheers,

P

3 in 1

Daddles:
....The point is, in that 14-16 foot range, you can get boats that can hit the water quickly...... but accept that your missus will be sitting on the floor (not her style I would have thought),...

Size does matter to some women! As you are aware the Lady won't go out in my little 3.3m "because the sharks are a lot bigger than that!" so 14 feet wouldn't cut the mustard either.... been there, tried that... that's why I was told to build at least an 18 foot boat

Bitingmidge:
Gliding silently along takes some beating.

I love the idea of peace and quiet - old age coming on. I was only commenting to a cousin yesterday over in Esperance W.A. at how I envy her ability to pop out to the farm and 'get away from it all - peace, quiet, back with nature.

So some might say "So why do you want to take the wife out onto the sea with you then if you want p & q?"
Good question! But SWMBO likes to feel part of the equation, besides if she does then I can build a boat without any problems Most likely, after one or two outings and other than smooth seas, it will probably be.... "enjoy your day out and you can clean the fish when you get home"

Tranquility is my aim and yes, sail, like gliding, is the ultimate way to achieve that.... but I have to consider the body stresses as well....

Mike
We'll have you totally confused before the day is out

Mate, that doesn't take much to do at the best of times!
The truth is I'm a classic Libran.... if a decision doesn't have to be made immediately then it can wait, and wait and wait... until a decision is no longer required !

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Good idea, in the same line of thinking a good old Hartley TS16 you can pick up cheap these days might need a bit of fixing up but is a forgiving boat with a bit of comfort to learn in. After having a play decide on the boat to build.

We'll have you totally confused before the day is out

Mike

Mike's advice is really good. Pick up a TS16 in working order - about $2500 to 3 is about right for an OK one. Plan to do almost no work on it then sell for around the same after a year. Always go for a test sail - it is the only way to make sure everything is there and that it works. Not self righting, but hard to knock over.

About the only boat that comes close to simplifying all the rubbish rigging that impedes the actual use of the boat and has some method for raising and lowering the mast easily is Bolger's Long Micro. Sails well, masts can be swung up and down, self righting - though it has a draft of around 15" (from memory). But I think you will think it is a box. But you can arrive at the launch ramp and be sailing away in 10minutes if you don't stuff around.

This is the little one 16' that has as much sprawling and sleeping room as many boats twice the length.



One that is not quite self righting but also hard to knock over is the second smallest Selway fisher highlander. It has more conventional rig options too - but they are Ok if you like to spend most of an hour setting up the boat on the launching ramp.


http://www.selway-fisher.com/Dayboat.htm

MIK

Core Sound 17 has most of the features you are after, with an optional cuddy/dodger for the loo. http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17.htm
They crop up a bit on open boat cruising blogs & the like.


Otherwise... I was going to say the same things about the TS16 as have already been said. Meets all the criteria listed. Especially as a relatively cheap first-time suck-it-and-see boat. It is a -big- 16footer, & stays big out on the water. 100kg of me can walk around the gunwales without terrorfying the passengers.

Had one for 3 or 4 years. Sold it because it was 'too big' & took too long to get in the water. Used it as a power boat (6hp Johnnie) as often as sail. Cruise all day on 20L juice at around 8kmh.

Best of all from your point of view, it is still a HARTLEY !!

Things to change about it to make it more "beginner-friendly".

I found that the long-boomed mainsail kakes the boat a handful in any sort of wind. At the very least it needs a reefing point just above the bottom batten. Maybe a second one above the second batten. But your mate should be able to do those for you cheap & easy. (I had no such contacts..)

I also got the irrits with the amount of rigging & fiddling setting it up & pulling it down. Lost count of the number of times I toyed with the idea of turfing the rig with its stays & vang & outhaul & downhaul & fiddly sail-tracks & etc & etc & etc.

If I'd had the means & the building experience I now have, I'd have cured all the above problems by turning my TS16 into a yawl with stayless masts.... put the big stick in a big hole up front, hoist the big sail, tie it off. Unroll the little sail from around its stick, put that in a little hole out back, tie it off. Go sailing. (Core Sound has this ease of use built-in.)

cheers
AJ

Howdy AJ,

Is the Core Sound self righting.

I know none of the others I mentioned are except for the Micro. The coresound has a good reputation.

MIK