Thread: 9 ft Nutshell

Originally Posted by Daddles

Mik. Your PuddleDucks are nice but methinks you're taking too much from your racing background ... or maybe I'm too much of a muggins. I know what you're saying and won't argue it, but do feel you've missed my point. Maybe we need to spend more time face to face - me learning from you, you coming face to face with the 'other side'. I'd be disappointed if I changed any of your thoughts but it would be nice to make you think about where the indicators are pointing

Richard

I guess my main point is ... get something that actually sails properly - not necessarly an Oz PDR.

Or change something so it will sail properly - like the suggestion about the nutshell centreboards - make them bigger and the performance of the boat upwind will double or more.

So why do I talk about performance ...

I think you have found out why already. If the boat actually sailed really well you would see that it had potential once the seating was sorted out.

If you haven't been impressed by the sailing yet ... you probably won't be.

Boats that perform are fun to sail, are safer and you can actually learn to sail in the things - they feedback so that you know when you are doing the right thing (whizzzzzz) and know when you are doing the wrong thing (bored).

Like I say on my website - I dont care what you build - choose any designer in the world - what I want is for you to have a positive experience so you discover that sailing and wooden boats are for you!!

And to do that you need to choose something that really works.

(I know you are pretty commited to wooden boats already - but want to make the point)

Best wishes
MIK

Mik, I've enjoyed the sailing I've done, but little of it has been conducive to teaching a beginner to love sailing.

Three times in a Heron ... in 15 knot winds and higher along with waves to suit. Trying madly to keep the thing upright and kicking the side out on two of those occasions. All this while my ex was having a public affair with the bloke who became her current partner which probably has something to do with my attitude. Nah, can't say I enjoyed that and it's got a lot to do with why I'm not drawn to sailing off the beach.

Three or four sessions in Redback, but only one with any wind, the last one, only to discover that I didn't fit in the damned thing. I couldn't turn around without going up onto my knees and pivoting and not with the tiller anywhere near ahead. Settling down on a tack and playing with the main sheet and tiller was fun though.

The last 12 months cycling have convinced me that I'm not interested in hard, uncomfortable work because it isn't fun - not at may age anyway. However, I'm stupid enough to believe that you can relax and enjoy sailing your wee boat.

That means that is has to sail properly, something Mik's drummed into me from the first time he tried to flog me some boat bits at that shop who's name I can't remember at the moment. And it's something I've taken well on board because it's an attitude I agree with.

Take the cycling analogy. I believe the bike should work for me, not me work for it. My bikes are set up to make me comfortable and have a very wide range of gears so I can get up these flamin' hills I live in. This means my riding position isn't particularly aero (though it is on the bent ) but speed isn't an issue - the drops are there to help fight head winds It means I run a granny gear that would be at home on a mountain bike, but I can spin my way up any hill whereas I can't stand and grind the pedals for any length of time - my heart rate monitor has hysterics. My bikes wear unfashionable leather saddles because they are comfortable and I don't need stupid clothes to go riding. This doesn't mean I've neglected performance because the sportster I built features drop bars, Ultegra (racing) level bits and I built the wheels myself to be strong and true. It's also steel for all sorts of good reasons. The cafe racer set sneer at me (literally the fools).

That's what I'm after with a boat, the floating equivalent of the Gentleman's Sportster Bicycle I built ... with maybe a dash of recumbent thrown in.

It will have to sail well for all the reasons Mik has given. If that means that I have to apply Mik's magic to an existing design, I'll only pause long enough to get the money to pay him.

The boat will have to be planked and round bilged (think Iain Oughtred for style) because I like that look - no other real reason, but If I'm going to spend money I can't technically afford and spend all that time swearing in the shed, I want to be able to sit back with a beer and listen to Janet telling me how beautiful it looks (she likes that style too but knows even less about boats than I do).

I know I will get better performance and more places to use it if I go bigger than I've discussed, but I've got a 14' boat coming along (Sixpence), I don't need another boat that needs a trailer and a determined effort to get up and go sailing. This particular project is for something that can be lugged around (even if you have to grunt a bit).

Redback's taught me that 7' is too small - if you get too cramped it's going to be hard work. If I can sort Redback out, I'll happily stay with her but if I'm doing a new build, I'll buy some extra space. How much more? All else being equal, the longer the boat the better it works, but you reach a point where it's hard to drag around getting from the water to the trailer. Two of the places I've boated from on the Inness have a vertical bank - you need to be able to drop the boat in and lift it out, beach dollies need not apply.

Is 12 foot too big? Probably. That Heron (at 11' 6" from memory) didn't need a beach dolly but if you didn't have one, you needed two people. Redback I can and have carried on my shoulder.

Lugsail. Mik's convinced me of their worth and I have no fond memories of stuffing about with stays and stuff. I like the simplicity of the lug.

So, I'm no sailor. I know that. Probably never will be. I do enjoy mucking about in boats though and the sail just adds another dimension.

The 9 ft Nutshell would do me. But what are the alternatives? Would having a pointed bow be better considering I might have to face choppy water or waves? I don't need to save length by chopping off the pointy bit because my trailer will carry a 14 footer (I've had Sixpence on it) so it's weight and 'luggability' that's important.

No, I don't want a bloody canoe. Not sure why, I just prefer row boats.

Rambling Richard

feel free to use this as a discussion thread, it's how we learn, well, I do. Internet experience isn't the same as getting wet, but it can reduce the severity of your mistakes ... sometimes

Originally Posted by Daddles

Would having a pointed bow be better considering I might have to face choppy water or waves?

Hmm, methinks this is a non-issue, when you consider the front of the PDracers and the conditions I've seen Mik sail one of them in.

Richard

And I'm beginning to think that I'll just go ahead and build the 9' Nutshell, unless someone has good reasons not to.

Why?

It'll do the job.
I like the way it looks - I've seen a 7' Nutshell sailing in real life and the photos on the net of the 9 footer all look pretty neat to me.
It's a relatively easy build - planking doesn't scare me but the less time I spend on this, the more I've got for Sixpence and riding bikes and **cough** sailing.

More importantly, it doesn't matter if I get Redback working or not because it'll give my son something to sail with me.

Am I mad? Is that an issue?

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

Hmm, methinks this is a non-issue, when you consider the front of the PDracers and the conditions I've seen Mik sail one of them in.

Richard

I was going to say that!!!!

Nutshell would be fine. It is not far off in many ways, but I have difficulty coming to grips with that toy centreboard.

Theres not much to be done at all Richard - it won't cost you a thing unless you ask me something complicated!!!

MIK

Originally Posted by Boatmik

I was going to say that!!!!

Nutshell would be fine. It is not far off in many ways, but I have difficulty coming to grips with that toy centreboard.

MIK

So how hard would it be for a bloke to get out pencil & ruler & add 3 inches to its front & rear, & resize the case & holes accordingly ? It wouldn't be as long as you'd like, but it would be an improvement, surely?

AJ

Howdy AJ,

The problem is while area is useful, depth is the measure of effectiveness. Certainly the Murray doesn't have much water in it at the moment, but it won't always be so.

And there are probably other places that the boat will be sailed in.

Certainly making the board wider can help prevent the centreboard from starting to stall badly as the water gets rougher and the boat gets knocked around and drag goes up.

But it doesn't really resolve the basic problem. I actually have two centreboards for my Beth sailing canoe. The original one came below the bottom of the boat by about 2ft 4" and the upwind performance was woeful. It was all properly shaped with a template and finished nicely too.

But the boat was a poor performer upwind.

I built a second board that was about 8" longer and suddenly I was able to compete with Laser dinghies around a regular race course. I would say it was at least a doubling of upwind efficiency - not much wood - not much work - not much extra space taken in the boat.

Widening the board doesn't have as much effect by a long chalk - within the context of existing sailing boats you don't see many with centreboards of the final proportion being suggested. I would say there is a reason for that. There are some boats with something similar, but none of them are noted for particularly good performance.

The good thing with the Nutshell (like the PDR) is that there is quite a good clearance between the boom and the top of the centrecase so it is easy enough to pull the board up a bit to go back to close to the original draft.

The centreboard on the Nutshell is really tiny - it is barely big enough for a rudder and when you deduct the height of the case - it is so far out of proportion that performance is badly harmed.

Anyway ... the point is a slightly longer board makes difference beyond all expectations if the existing board is undersized. I would be suggesting to look at the whole thing at any rate - I wouldn't discount increases in both depth and width (and some in thickness) to move toward a more "standard" sized board.

Best wishes
Michael

Just so happens I've got a 9' nutshell with sail for sale if you're interested