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Thread: A beak for a Duck!
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18th March 2010, 04:48 PM #1'Just hit it harder'
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A beak for a Duck!
Firstly apologies to Michael Storer who has designed the MK2 - PDRacer, a beautiful little performer which is popular worldwide. I receive my plans soon I hope, and intend to build one over winter.
A question from my novice observations though is about the bow which is completely flat. I have never sailed one, but does this flat front not 'slap' through chop and waves? Or shear to the side when hitting waves?
I have looked at lots of PDR pics and out of idle curiosity (never having designed a boat before) thought I would give her nose a tweak!!
I attach some very poor CAD drawings from Sketchup. and I am curious if putting a sharp bit on the front would help. I have tried to ensure that the basic shape and function of MIKs design remains true. In fact the only addition (hopefully still cut from 1 piece of 2.4 meter ply) is above the waterline at the bow.
The bottom ply would sweeep from the stern right up to the point at the bow (in the 2nd drawing I have left a line where the original ply bottom stopped at it's flat front. The triangle indicates the additional material needed to complete the front pointed bow,) The flat original front section would split in the middle and become a point.
I think it gives the original Duck a bit more of a boaty profile too.
And yes I know, it is no longer a PDRacer AND i am adding weight but I like the less abrupt bow shape.
Any views on whether this helps either physically or aesthetically or not, would be grateful. Cheers...M
.... "Don't tell him your name Pike!"
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18th March 2010 04:48 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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18th March 2010, 07:07 PM #2
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but the important thing is that it would no longer be legal for PDR racing events - the rules specify the flat bow - apologies if that's what you meant.
I'm no designer either but for what it's worth, I can't see your modification achieving anything because you sail the boat with the bow out of the water and any chop that's going to slam into it is going to bounce off your beaked bow too.
On the other hand, if you're not going to be disappointed when you find you can only race unofficially and if you prefer the looks of your version, go for it and make it work - individualism is always good
The most attractive Mouseboat in the world belongs to our very own Hawk, who hated the look of the flat decking and in a fit of nautical lunacy, made his Mouseboat with curved decking. It doesn't go any better, but looks far sweeter ... though the dog now slides off instead of neatly balancing up front.
Richard
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19th March 2010, 09:19 AM #3'Just hit it harder'
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Racing would be fun ...
so I am tempted to just leave the design alone. Is the racing scene for PDRs very popular in SA?
.... "Don't tell him your name Pike!"
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19th March 2010, 07:11 PM #4
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20th March 2010, 10:16 PM #5
G'day Kaiser
I have some cans here I made up a year or so ago.
Haven't been used in anger yet.
Haven't built my PDR yet either...
PDR's haven't been around long enough to get wide following.
Don't think there's much point in putting a blunt point on a PDR.
Still lots of slabs for water to splat against. Sow's ears & silk purses.
Probably better to go for something designed with a pointy bit to start with.
You won't get the same stability in that length though.
What are the restrictions on your build - length, breadth, weight, price, transport, hand-skills, sailing skills, etc ?
And Daddles, I resemble that comment about the fat old git in the funny boat.
Redback is a sweet little thing. It's just the ergonomics that suck.
cheers
AJ
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21st March 2010, 12:43 AM #6
Mik has no troubles sailing Redback ... but he's half the size!
I was thinking recently that I'm actually enjoying rowing her, and this after a number of day's rowing. Then I took her out on my own and realised how horrible she is. With an adult and two dogs on the rear seat, she rows nicely, with just the rower in the boat, she's horrible
It's alright, she'll never be sold ... because my daughter loves the boat, tells people about 'her boat that daddy made for her' and raves about the wonderful spider I painted on its bum. See, someone loves the thing.
Richard
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22nd March 2010, 11:29 AM #7'Just hit it harder'
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23rd March 2010, 02:34 AM #8
I'll bring Teal along (if I'm not part way through open heart surgery on the centreboard case by then). See what you think of rowing her. Won't be in
the same league as MIK's Row Boat, but not bad for 11ft w/l. Before I put the thwart in her, when carrying a passenger I'd turn around and row her bum first.
Did a lot of km that way one year at Bribie while chewing the fat with little sister. But you can do that sort of thing with a point at both ends...
cheers
AJ
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30th March 2010, 09:33 PM #9
Howdy,
I have been tied up with other things. This is an interesting discussion. The thing is that boats never really meet the sea exactly front on.
For example when going upwind into a nasty chop - the time the boat is most likely to be slowed - the corner of the bow is pointing in the right direction so the angle of both the bow and the side of the boat to the wave is acute as possible.
Making an angled bow would possibly make the wave impact with the bow worse rather than better.
There has been a lot of yacht design history based around similar assumptions. For example many yachts have had very fine veed entries at the bow. But when the boats heel the side of the boat is not at a bad angle to slap and slam as the waves get bigger.
The reason the sharpie type hullshape - for bigger boats that heel upwind to gain the stability needed - is that they start of flat that looks bad, but as soon as they heel they present a deep veed shape to the water, so seldom pound or throw spray upwind.
Some modern yacht designers have twigged that this is the case and that a fine bow when the boat is sitting upright may not be so fine when the boat is heeled.
Another example is in Aluminium runabouts, Some have a tiny vee, which makes almost no difference how the boats ride in a chop. Bolger's diablo that uses a deep vee with a flat centre panel pounds less and is way more efficient than a deep veed boat.
It has its limits of course too. But the main thing is to actually picture what is happening when the boat is in motion.
Best wishes
Michael
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1st April 2010, 03:52 PM #10'Just hit it harder'
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Thanks for your reply Michael
I will bow to your design skills and tolerate the flat bow. (The GIS is soooo tempting right now!)
I did some research and found out the pic you supplied is in fact yours. I am curoious about the rig you have used. I dont think it's the one as supplied in your plans for the Duck but it looks great. More elegant.
Is that sail set-up drawn as plans anywhere and what do you call it? Another photo would be good if you have one too.
thanks again (This means I get shot for deviating from the original post i think )
.... "Don't tell him your name Pike!"
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1st April 2010, 06:39 PM #11
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4th April 2010, 09:07 AM #12
We can always shoot you gently. Actually it is not a big deal to swap topics a bit. We are still talking about the same boat.
The sail is the stock standard sail made to the plan dimensions.
MIK
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