Thread: A boating progression

Well you could... if you wont mind bein totally cramped uncomfortable and phissed of most of the time... these little boats such as the GIS and such are a bloody hoot for a few hours a weekend maybe but for live aboard what the yanks call "gunkholing" for weeks at a time up and down rivers along the coast etc all inshore sailing I wouldnt... Id consider a Wharram 21 to be the minimum for extended weeks at a time coastal sailing... some would argue that a Wharram is a peice of crap without any good vices but I know of 2 blokes who have sailed theres all round Europe one ven across the atlantic... so it can be done

And the thing with them is they can go anywhere! need only a few inches of water under their keels and a bit of wind and are also trailerable (note if you look through the Wharram site theres a link to a bloke whos built a trailer specifically for the 21 hes a top bloke and will tell you all the ins and outs of making one) they have enough accomadations for one or two to be comfortable and not crowded like sausages on a barbie... will take the rough and tumble with the smooth and easy

Just my view others of course will differ... but for coastal cruising with a tad of comfort and the ability to shoot of to the islands say of the gold coast this would for me be the choice

Thanks Wild Dingo.
Er , where do I find out about the Wharram 21 ?.
Regards Rob J.

What about an NIS 18 ?.
Rob J.

Originally Posted by dopeydriver

Thanks Wild Dingo.
Er , where do I find out about the Wharram 21 ?.
Regards Rob J.

Right HERE

People who continue to perpetrate the myth of the Wharram range ought to be sent to drive trucks in the middle of the desert! :eek:

They're a piece of crap without any good vices. But if you are the sort of person that likes being handcuffed blindfolded in a coldroom while having your privates nibbled at by three toed sloths, that sort of lifestyle could be for you!

Small dinghy cruising is possible, and wonderfully enjoyable. I have two friends who have cruised the Queensland Coast in small dinghies, one of them in a 125, one in a Status. When you are out of sight of land alone in a small boat, help is a long long way off!

I've cruised the coast in an 18ft trailer sailer (with bouyancy chambers) equipped with radio and all the safety gear, and then in boats of all sizes after that.

It's all possible, but you have to get a bit of experience first.

I suggest you build the PDR and thrash it! (they are just asking for that! ) The GIS will be a perfect vessel for camp-cruising, (near shore please!- you are a long way from help if something goes wrong when you are twenty miles offshore), and it's easy to build, so why not do that to gain further experience, get into the boat scene, then weigh up further options?

As a died in the wool multihuller... well you might find an old Seawind 24.........

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

People who continue to perpetrate the myth of the Wharram range ought to be sent to drive trucks in the middle of the desert! :eek:

They're a piece of crap without any good vices. But if you are the sort of person that likes being handcuffed blindfolded in a coldroom while having your privates nibbled at by three toed sloths, that sort of lifestyle could be for you!

Hey Shane, he's been to your place

Richard

psst, I don't think midge likes Wharram's

Now tell us what you really think midge

ok then dopey errr dingo, don't get midge rilled up now ya hear !

Rob, you could start off with the PDR like midge suggested but IMHO you'll outgrow that pretty quick.

What would I do ?

Start off with something, anything. Decide and start. Try to set an end date otherwise it may sit there while other things take priority.

While doing the first one, suss out what you want to do next. There are plenty of wise (not neccessarily intelligent) people on this forum more than happy to give you their 2 cents worth then if you want to move up then start the process over again.

Like anything in life it's not going to be exactly what you first envisaged but its rewarding (says he who had a gutfull of the cadet) who knows you might get the bug.

oh and midge, your comments about the coldroom etc might just exite the odd canine I mean they do like to nibble don't they ? You just never know

Good Luck

Andrew

http://www.boatdesign.net/nyd/P590/

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/24-Catamaran-...QQcmdZViewItem

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

People who continue to perpetrate the myth of the Wharram range ought to be sent to drive trucks in the middle of the desert! :eek:

You talkin to me?? EH?? :mad: ooooh thats right you were

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

They're a piece of crap without any good vices.

I am not! Im a bloody nice bloke with some quirky interests... So there!

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

But if you are the sort of person that likes being handcuffed blindfolded in a coldroom while having your privates nibbled at by three toed sloths, that sort of lifestyle could be for you!

You know me sooooo well dontcha yer ol phart

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Small dinghy cruising is possible, and wonderfully enjoyable. I have two friends who have cruised the Queensland Coast in small dinghies, one of them in a 125, one in a Status. When you are out of sight of land alone in a small boat, help is a long long way off!

I've cruised the coast in an 18ft trailer sailer (with bouyancy chambers) equipped with radio and all the safety gear, and then in boats of all sizes after that.

It's all possible, but you have to get a bit of experience first.

I suggest you build the PDR and thrash it! (they are just asking for that! ) The GIS will be a perfect vessel for camp-cruising, (near shore please!- you are a long way from help if something goes wrong when you are twenty miles offshore), and it's easy to build, so why not do that to gain further experience, get into the boat scene, then weigh up further options?

As a died in the wool multihuller... well you might find an old Seawind 24.........

Cheers,

P

Of course all thats true I didnt say it wasnt... what I said was my view I like a bit of room a bit of comfort and I didnt say he should buggar of over the pacific in it but for a nice leasurely cruise along the coast it would do me and worth a sticky beak

Now a nice Jim Brown Searunner perhaps?

I've finally got you lot started !.
I had a look at the wharram page , and while it seemed impressive , it sorta didn't set me alight.
Are they wood ?. whatever i build or use , I want to be wood.
Its sorta like when I was at Goolwa , one afternoon I snuck off a bit early and went and visited some very experienced camel trekkers , to check out their critters.
Yep , they were very impressive , and could certainly do the job of trekking through the desert better than any other animal , but I reckon they would be an "acquired taste" , ya know ?.
Like boating , try to make informed decisions , and with that experience would probably come an evolution of thoughts.
Yes , my intention is to get the PDR up and going real soon , then probably go to the GIS next year , and give the PDR to the grandkids.
But I'm already better informed from this short conversation , so keep it coming boys !.
You blokes have the experience , I'm just sitting here listening !.
Rob J.

Originally Posted by dopeydriver

Like boating , try to make informed decisions ,

Oh gawd. That's hysterical.

Originally Posted by meerkat

Rob, you could start off with the PDR like midge suggested but IMHO you'll outgrow that pretty quick.

Andrew, in the sense that one's skills will progress where one can handle a larger boat with a degree of competance, I agree entirely.

However, as the owner of roughly 72 feet of boat, (of which the PDR's comprise 16), they are the sort of thing that just come in handy for all sorts of things. I know I'm a bit enthusiastic, but I'd seriously consider one as a tender for a larger yacht. They are significantly more utilitarian and stable that the typical 7-7-8'0" tenders I've owned and much much more efficient as sailing craft as well.

One of the next projects is to prove one up as a genuine tender type vessel, that will take a small transom modification for an outboard, and a rowing setup.... now I wish I wasn't going away at Christmas!

Cheers,

P

Notice to all!

It seems that in one of the above posts I may have accidentally given the impression that I don't think much of Wharram boats.

This is not the case I think lots of them, it's just that not all of my thoughts are good ones!

Nah! They have a remarkable place in history, just as did Joshua Slocum's spray, but like many other boats (and this is why you have to get out and sail as much as you can).

Many boats are not many of the things their reputation purports them to be. The ethos is bigger than the reality.

I really don't want to bag Wharram's particularly, but to use them as an example, I think it is dangerous to assume that because a few massochists have completed lengthy journeys in well built examples, that they are fantastically good for that purpose by today's standard.

Others are abandonded and littering shorelines of coastlines and estuaries. I can take you to four Wharram abandonded wrecks today if you have the time! (Blame the owners/builders here NOT the designer).

In the absence of evidence, claims about performance are just that, which is why we posted videos of the PDR's in action.

So...what I am trying to say is... go sailing, observe, and ask questions!

If someone describes a boat as "surprisingly" anything, it usually means it is hopeless at whatever is surprising!

Next time to see something described as "surprisingly fast" see if you can find one in a racing fleet.
"surprisingly comfortable" usually means 2ft headroom, and very wet.
"surprisingly seaworthy" means we were lucky it didn't sink
"surprisingly manouvreable" ....means I have no idea how we missed that trawler!

You can go anywhere in anything if you are tough enough, careful enough or lucky enough, but it's nice to be a bit forewarned!

I'm not bagging anything here, but all boats (even the GIS:eek: ) have limits, and it is a question of finding the most appropriate for your purpose!

Keep asking the questions though!

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Nah! They have a remarkable place in history, just as did Joshua Slocum's spray, but like many other boats (and this is why you have to get out and sail as much as you can).
P

Actually quite similar to the hype around Wharrams is the hype around Slocum's SPRAY.

She was not the best, or fastest, or safest, or prettiest boat in the world. She was what Slocum could AFFORD - he bought her for a few dollars and spent a long time making her seaworthy enough.

He was a commercial shipping captain with the experience to understand the weaknesses of the boat and work around them.

For example - if she had been knocked down by a heavy sea and capsized there is almost ZERO chance of her coming upright again. Also she was a VERY poor upwind sailer.

Both of which were true of commercial sailing ships so Slocum had the experience of exactly how to handle boats with these limitations.

So if you have someone who TRULY knows what they are doing it may not be a big obstruction.

The really crazy thing is that there are whole ranges of boat plans claiming to be a replica of the SPRAY. They bear some sort of resemblance in profile but are completely different in every other way. Though the profile similarity is enough to ensure that they can't sail upwind to help themselves.

But they are sold as being seaworthy "because the original SPRAY was".

For me the most objective test for the value of boats is their resale.

Any modern multihull in the 40ft range will go for hundreds of thousands of dollars. So on selling the owner will get back a very good proportion of the material and labour that went into the boat.

You can pick up a second hand 40ft Wharram for 40 to 60 thousand - maybe occasionally more. Often much cheaper. Making it hard to even recoup the materials and equipment cost.

Check the net.

This reflects the reality of the boats and the approach and knowledge of most of the people who build them. It doesn't mean that they are not capable of sailing round the world though!!!

Of course it opens up the opportunity to be like Capt. Slocum - that you can pick up a very cheap Wharram and with care and knowledge of its shortfalls in performance and handling you can prepare it and sail it round the world. It will be faster than Slocum's SPRAY but you will be left behind by any other multihull and a good proportion of monohulls too.

Speed is often pointed out as being unecessary by cruising types - but speed means performance which means a margin of safety when the boat is pushed onto its own resources to get out of some difficult situation.

Like the time I was trying to sail into Mooloolaba Harbour against a monster outrush of tide - my mistake! Way too fast to row against. Tried to sail in against it and kept being washed out - looked like I would have to land on the beach in the surf. Then got one decent puff and covered the 100m length of the narrow entry with time to spare. Simply because the boat I was in accelerates and points well, tacks easily and has a good top speed.

MIK