Thread: I want to build a boat! (maybe electric fishing boat)

First thing is to buy a bag of marbles. Go the the lake and think
about what you are doing. While you are thinking, throw the marbles
in the lake one at a time.

Ok, You have lost your marbles, you can start building a boat.

Check this site:

http://www.svensons.com/boat/

And this:

http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=Utility/JonBoat

G'day Rob

Are you in it for the build, or for the fishing ?
For the fishing, then you want something simple, like MIK's Goat Island Skiff or Bolger's Diablo.

If it's for the build, then the world is your oyster... Something by Iain Oughtred or from the
Woodenboat stable might be more to your taste.

As for taking it out on The Bay, you would need to be quite sure that you were off the water
before any wind got up. A small electric motor is not likely to have enough power to fight wind.
Or current - stay away from the southern Bay !!

HTH
Alan J.

Howdy Rob,

Good advice AJ,

Builds break into two groups generally.

People whose main aim is to get a boat into the water as quick as possible, or
People who are into the build process as an aim in itself.

The second group warrant a more complex boat.

The svenson's link that Papa gave is a historical look at what boatbuilding once was. I have some comments here about plans of that era. They will cost you more than any modern alternative and be slower to build than the more complex modern boats that have good detailed plans and procedures.

The Diablo that AJ suggests is a GREAT boat ... but will need at least 10hp to be useful .. and 15 is better, but for capacity, stability and speed under these modest powers ... she is brilliant.

But for electric power, she is not. You really need a rowboat or a sailboat hull to keep the drag down.

The better plans like the Oughtred ones (a more complex build than a sheet plywood boat, but simpler than the svenson's plans) that AJ suggests give you a traditional looking boat where the plans are very nicely set up for amateur building and it is hard for even a beginner to put a foot wrong.

Oughtred and all the better designers these days update plans fairly regularly if building issues are found and you have a live designer and lots of other builders to communicate with.

The Svenson's plans do contain some gems ... particularly in the speedboat end of things, but there are some really crappy boats lurking there too. In general they are from the era of lots of power and petrol .. and will not run efficiently on the very low power you are suggesting. A free plan might be tempting, but I have quoted out enough boats of this era that I know that for a build in Australia a 16 footer will cost more in nails than the plans for a modern boat (modern boats don't use nails or screws much) and the solid timber budget will be much greater than anything modern.

One of the oughtred rowboats or sailboat hulls would work very well with the electric outboard.

There are good free plans around, but the bulk of free plans are worth exactly what you pay for them.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

I'd like to add that Michael and AJ's comments should be heeded. On a more personal note, they now have a new medication available for those in the early stages of this particular illness. Avail yourself of a doctor's advise and get some, quick. There is no known cure and you have to nip this stuff in the bud very early or it spreads into the major organs of the body and you're basically doomed.

Think about it man, your family needs you, your wife wants you and the kids deserve their play time with daddy. Don't wait, thinking it's just a passing fad, this stuff kills people. It's nothing to be fooled with. I mean come on brother, who's you boss going to yell at if you're gone?

All kidding aside, you have no idea what excruciatingly painful endeavor you've stumbled over. The quick cure, that seems to work about 30% of the time, is to just pull out a 22 ounce claw hammer and swat yourself in the back of the head until you stop thinking about building a boat. If this doesn't show immediate results and the dream of a boat, by you own hand, still rambles through your mind, then turn the claw hammer around 180 degrees and take a few more swats.

I know this is harsh, I'm just trying to save you from a life of misery, hardship and epoxy coated nostril hair.

On the other hand ... we do tend to joke about a bit ... but we are all highly addicted to this particular past time.

All of us have found it hugely rewarding so there is no real need to grab either marbles or a claw hammer.

The general problems that people face are the general questions we see commonly
How much will it cost? Not necessarily much.
How long will it take? Depends on the type of project you choose.
What if I get stuck? We are here to help and also pointing you toward some well documented designs will radically reduce the risk of getting stuck.
Do I need much skill? Not much at all really ... modern building methods are quite forgiving.
What about space? Often don't need much.
What to build? There are easier and harder boats in most categories.

There are lots of different ways you can approach it and most of us have some knowledge of most of them.

The good thing about this group (here) in particular is most of us know what we know and also know what we don't know so are pretty helpful with real practical advice.

This doesn't include me by the way.

Michael

Originally Posted by RobertAdair

Hey all

I am new to boating but have been wood working for quite a while, and i want to build my first boat.

I want to build a 2-3 man boat for fishing and it will be used on a lake.I have been looking around the internet and am leaning towards a plywood skiff, but then again i have no idea what i am talking about.I want to attach a small electric motor to it.

Please give me some feedback on what i should be aiming for, it doesn't have to be the most beautiful thing in the world either.And will i be able to take a boat like this out on the bay on a still day for fishing?

Thanks Rob
ps: i really have no knowledge on the subject of boats

Hi Rob,

What about a "Flint" by Ross Lillistone? see http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

or if you are a half handy woodworker, here's a nice outboard skiff out of clinker ply

regards,

AD

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Howdy Rob,

The Diablo that AJ suggests is a GREAT boat ... but will need at least 10hp to be useful .. and 15 is better, but for capacity, stability and speed under these modest powers ... she is brilliant.

But for electric power, she is not. You really need a rowboat or a sailboat hull to keep the drag down.

Michael is probably quite correct - he has owned or at least driven a Diablo.
I have not.
Interesting what others are doing though...
http://www.psnw.com/~jmrudholm/etekoutboard.html
there was a bloke in sth america somewhere that posted a link to his Diablo pics.
batteries & gauges & switch panel located midships. very nice build.

cheers
AJ

Originally Posted by PAR

All kidding aside, you have no idea what excruciatingly painful endeavor you've stumbled over. The quick cure, that seems to work about 30% of the time, is to just pull out a 22 ounce claw hammer and swat yourself in the back of the head until you stop thinking about building a boat. If this doesn't show immediate results and the dream of a boat, by you own hand, still rambles through your mind, then turn the claw hammer around 180 degrees and take a few more swats.

I know this is harsh, I'm just trying to save you from a life of misery, hardship and epoxy coated nostril hair.

I'm looking forward to hearing Paul's response to someone who says they are planning on building a 40' Schooner.

Unlikely to occur here I know as most of us are more the into transforming sheets of ply into small craft.
For some really good examples of the affliction one needs to visit Wooden Boat I particularly like this one, have a look at all the threads. Beautiful ain't she.

Mike

Originally Posted by PAR

Think about it man, your family needs you, your wife wants you and the kids deserve their play time with daddy. Don't wait, thinking it's just a passing fad, this stuff kills people. It's nothing to be fooled with. I mean come on brother, who's you boss going to yell at if you're gone?

I prefer the words of Ray Frechette of Great Falls Boatworks www.greatfallsboatworks.com
in response to:

I am looking to build a boat. This boat would be my only boat and ....

Yep, thats what we all say at first.
I need to find the right plans because this will be my only boat...
Then we find another set of plans that fill a certain niche....

Then another...

And some of us start building for other people just to feed the habit.

But I can stop any time.
I know I can...
I am not weak willed like the others...
I jsut do it cause I like it...
But I can stop building anytime....

Very perceptive man, that Ray.
Come to think of it, PAR, MIK, RossL & AD are all in that terminal stage of the
affliction where they mostly build for others.

Happily, I am not.
I can stop any time I want.
I know I can.
I am not weak willed like they are.
I just do it because I like it.
But I can stop building any time...

AJ

Howdy, Diablo is more suitable than some planing hulls because of the narrow immersed transom ... but the final solution that the chap is heading toward is to put the same motor on his Sneakeasy!

Now THAT is a very suitable hull for low power ... though wonder how it will go in a breeze.




Sneakeasy
26 feet long with a 4 foot beam
This is a design by Phil Bolger of Gloucester, MA.
Constuction is straight forward plywood, 1/2" bottom, 1/4" sides.

Bit down in the stern in this pic! Moving the cockpit forward 3ft woudl make a huge difference to the efficiency. Or moving the back seats so they are back to back with the front seats.

MIK

I was on the phone with Ray last week.

I honestly have lost track of the number of boats I've been involved with in my life. I started when I was 12 with an all original design of my own. It was much like an under nourished PDR, which I patterned after the many little tenders I saw along the cannels were I lived. I fished the crap out of it, until one day several years later I stepped into her and my foot when through her worn out bottom. I've built big ones and little ones and the claw hammer trick didn't work, in spite of trying it in both directions.

Therapy, lots of therapy is all I can suggest for anyone now and I should talk. After thousands of dollars, a few different doctors and hundreds of sessions on the "couch", you'd think I learn, but noooo . . . It must be the Italian in me I guess, maybe the Irish side isn't helping matters either.

Then again, I was born on a boat (no kidding, an 86 year old schooner) and raised on an island, so I was pretty my much screwed from the start. As a young lad, I saw how hard the farmers worked on the mainland and I climbed aboard a few fishing boats, quickly seeing this was way too hard a living too. So I started working on boats. I could butcher wood with the best of them and life as spiraled downward ever since.

Actually I shouldn't complain. I'm fortunate to have been able to do the things I love all my life and get paid for it most of the time. I've never had to work in a factory, though I have sat behind a desk on a few occasions. I consider myself very lucky to have been able to do this, while most get out of school and "settle" on something. I've been able to pick and choose for the most part. I wouldn't trade any of it. Okay, maybe that time we capsized in an ocean race and I had to tread water for 9 hours, I could have done without. Possibly the time I was fishing in the flats off of Ft. Desoto in St. Pete, having just torn the stomach out of a cat fish, to see what he'd be eating so I could adjust my bait, when I noticed two lemon sharks a 100 yards away. I was in hip deep water about 200 yards from shore and knew full well, I couldn't stomp back to shore fast enough if those puppies wanted me for lunch. Well, these two fellas, kept swimming back and forth, obviously attracted by the fish guts floating all around me. I froze, hoping I looked more like a set of skinny, albino pilings then lunch. I suddenly realized the sand under my right foot was being eroded away and I couldn't support my weight any more so I had to move or fall over. I could see their fins making figure eights about 50 yards away, when my foot suddenly lost it's grip and I stumbled to get new footing. The fins darted directly away from me, towards open gulf. I guess they were as bothered by me as I was them, though I could have lived without this particular test too.

Most that know me, expect that I'll tell them to "go for it". You can always find a new, more understanding wife later, maybe one that is a loan officer at the local bank. One more thing, you must realize what BOAT stands for: Bring Over Another Thousand . . . and likely why sailors are world accepted, as the finest users of words you never heard you mother use and exceptionally skilled drinkers.

Hey Rob, are ya still out there mate ?

Strewth !! I think we've frightened Rob off with all this talk of claw hammers & psychiatrists !!

<muses> this internet thingy is an amazing place. Who'd have thought even
10 years ago, that a boat-builder & designer in Florida would be advising a
prospective builder in Melbourne to see a shrink !!
The world has gone mad I tell ya !

But coming back to the original question (Rob, are you still with us?)...

for the uses you are proposing, -especially- due to the possibility of drowning
worms in Port Phillip Bay, It would be hard to go past Diablo or a similar class
of boat. It is a big volume boat with plenty of room for 3 people fishing, high
sides to stay dry in a chop, and light enough to handle on & off a trailer
almost anywhere, not just proper ramps. But would reward a donk with more
grunt to push it around.

If "alternate" power really is a must, you ought to go to a more easily driven
hull shape. Short wide planing powerboat hulls are terrible at low speed -
heaps of drag, won't hold a straight course, etc, etc. 2 ways this is
commonly got around - either:
1. a long narrow shallow one, with attendant reduction in stability unless you
go much longer - eg Bolger's 23ft Light Schooner or Sneakeasy. Or
2. a shapely displacement hull with attendant build complications &
requirement for deeper water. Something like one of David Payne's smaller
launches might be well suited to electric rather than inboard donk.
http://www.payneyachts.com/motor_launches.htm

A compressed air motor from this mob might also be worth checking out.
http://www.engineair.com.au/applications.htm

hope this helps
cheers
AJ

Here's one more with an electrical application in mind

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/ji...tron/index.htm

Howdy .... just to reiterate ... drag works like this in general for well designed and non extreme boats of these types.

From highest drag to lowest drag hulls at displacement speeds
Planing Power Boats
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Displacement Power Boats.
.
.
Sailing Boats
.
Rowing Boats
.
.
Canoes and Kayaks

I have done this somewhat graphically ... there is no calculation backing this up.

the problem always is the weight of the batteries and the excess power needed when the weather comes up nasty.

The Duckworks article is EXCELLENT on the electrics calculation but it is a real fine weather boat with that degree of powering. The kid is up in the bow to keep the nose down ... maybe the batteries are in the back of the cockpit at the moment but the stern looks too fine .. the designer should have found a way to keep the crew weight more central in the boat..

The article is highly useful for the method, but be aware that a bit of chop .. not a lot ... can increase hull drag by 60% ... more waves 100 ... 200. Wind can have a big effect too.

The boat and the motor battery set up in the article would be quite risky in open water in poor conditions. From the article he discusses using a conventional outboard ...

I'm quite sure it will not plane under control in the usual safe sense. So there is little point in using over about 4 hp.

In some sheltered river or small lake it might be adequate, but in the waters of the photo I would probably be thinking a minimum of 6 would be better, maybe a bit more for a boat that will catch this much wind.

So there is huge pressure to move toward using electric boats for medium or long trips on smooth water with low amount of reserve power, or short trips on rough water with a high reserve of power and battery capacity.

Rowboat and sailboat derived hullforms that are relatively narrow and low to the water are to be preferred. Keep the weight and complexity of the boat down.

The more protected the area the boat will be used the smaller the powerplant and battery can be.

So to go back to Roberts excellent outline of what he wants

Hey all

I am new to boating but have been wood working for quite a while, and i want to build my first boat.

I want to build a 2-3 man boat for fishing and it will be used on a lake.I have been looking around the internet and am leaning towards a plywood skiff, but then again i have no idea what i am talking about.I want to attach a small electric motor to it.

Please give me some feedback on what i should be aiming for, it doesn't have to be the most beautiful thing in the world either.And will i be able to take a boat like this out on the bay on a still day for fishing?

Thanks Rob
ps: i really have no knowledge on the subject of boats

I would be suggesting a rowboat or sailboat hull that will suit three people. A sailing hull will have a bit more capability to carry weight than a rowboat of the same size.

The electrics will go close to the weight of one person ... unless you go for longer endurance or more overpowering for rough conditions.

So that leaves two people ... you can carry one extra for a bit of an overload which won't be too bad on a boat of this size. It is likely to be around 16ft (4.8metres). There are a whole bunch of different sailing boat hulls around the 16ft mark ... or a little less. Maybe some 14 footers might be OK.

The advantage of boats of this type is a good pair of oars will bring you back safe in most conditions it is pleasant to be out in. Which gives an interesting mind set. If you really can keep an eye on the weather and use the boat in a similar way to a rowboat then a small electric motor and battery capacity can be fine. Just carry some oars too! Or ditch the electrics and row!

A decent rowboat will go just about as fast with human power.

Best wishes
Michael