Thread: catboat or skiff or ...?

thirsty,

Send Mik and email and ask him about his "secret" new bigger version of the GIS, I reckon it'll be perfect for you.

I used to live at Manly, and sail the GIS in Waterloo Bay and beyond, but it is an open dinghy and you'd need care to cross the open parts of the Bay in crook weather.

Having said that, you'd need care in any of the boats on your list.

Depending on what you mean by "overnighting" I wouldn't bother attempting to sleep aboard anything that wasn't a trailer sailer.. so the TS and NIS are about the only things left on your list if you don't want to camp ashore!

You are correct in terms of ease of construction with the GIS, if you want to check one out, send me a PM.

Cheers,

P

Howdy, It all depends on what ends up appealing to you the most.

The NIS18 is a lot of building compared to the others as it has the enclosed cabin and self draining cockpit. Great boat though - but there is almost as much building in it as the larger 23 because the 23 retains the same simplicity.

One boat I would strongly suggest to you is the Bolger Oldshoe - it sails well and has a shallow draft keel. It is a lot shorter than the others but is quite rough water capable. I did an article about a test sail a long time ago and it is a bit like owning the cockpit of a 25ft boat without the expensive bits (cabin, keel, big mast and sails, winches). Has a good space for the outboard though!

There was one on the Marina at the Goolwa Wooden boat Festival and no-one could believe it was a 12ft boat - it feels and looks much more like a 16 footer. Sio it's about the lightest keelboat you can get.

Be aware that it has a flat bow like the Micro, Martha Jane and AS29. Some people like that bold statement (me included) but the builder of the boat pictured here extended the bow forward to a point.

All the other boats have their strengths and weaknesses, some more or less so.

I'll let others bring that discussion to a head of steam...

Best wishes

Michael.

G'day Thirsty,

Have you had a look at Ross Lillistones Phoenix III at http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/ . It seems to fit most of the criteria that you have listed. As well as being a SEQld local (easily accessable for support), Ross provides a very detailed set of plans/building instructions. A couple of members of this forum have started builing this boat. Haven't seen any recent posts regarding their progress. There are also posts on Duckworks site http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/lillistone/index.htm on Phoenix III.

Thanks bitingmidge,

Having further consulted with SWMBO, a cabin is looking like a requirement to keep warm, sleep in if needed and hide in should it rain.

So I have narrowed it down to the NIS18, Scruffie with a cabin, Redfin 520, TS 16/18, (hard to ignore their popularity which makes it easier to sell down the track should I want to upgrade) or perhaps even the Bolger Chebacco. I am trying to stay under 20' as it seems cost and time starts to really blow out once you get above that size, also for ease of handling. I dont know much about the redfin other than the basic info on the website and would be interested if anyone had any experience or knowledge on it? It looks like a modern TS18 to me but am I missing something? I am wary of the scruffie being a little slow, I spoke to a TS16 owner once and he didn't think much of their performance, but they sound well designed and safe boat.

Many thanks for the feedback and offer to check out the GIS. I would love to build one but it doesnt quite fit the needs. If only their was an 18 footer with a cabin and.........

Cheers Brett.

Thanks BoatMik,

I checked out the oldshoe and it sounds like great little ship. I have since narrowed the criteria and a cabin looks mandatory now so will have to leave that one. Dont have a 18' GIS with a cabin on the drawing board do you??..

Many thanks
Brett.

You have moved to a cabin so the oldshoe is out but the Micro at 16ft is in. I have a friend that sails his all over South Australia offshore.

It is simpler than either the Scruffie or the NIS.

The NIS will be by far the best sailor in all conditions. The Micro will never let you down in any conditions though not quite as fast. The Scruffie is nowhere near the same sailing capability as these other two.

Funny how I'm comfortable to start talking once my own boat design is out of the picture!!!!

MIK

G'day Thirsty
Grab a copy of Australian Amateur Boat Builder magazine #57 - might still be in your local newsagent - due for #58 about now. Has a review of Barrie Armstrong's Redfin 520 & development. Even allowing for a designer's natural enthusiasm for his own work, it seems to have much to commend it. If your newsagent hasn't got it, boat suppliers such as Duck Flat (in SA) or maybe Boatcraft Pacific carry back issues. Or you can order them from the publisher http://www.boatbuilder.com.au/ In fact, grab a few back issues & do some serious drooling... ;-)

If it must have a cabin, Jarcat 5 or 6 is probably the most boat you can get for the money, albeit aesthetically challenged. Jarcat is also a Brissie-based design with a fair few out there already.

John Welsford (NZ) does some gorgeous small cruisers with proven rough weather ability. I gather his plans are less friendly than some other designers, although he is at least as accessible on-line as Mik to answer questions & advise on variations.

TS16 is a great boat - a dinghy with a cuddy - too cramped to be a 'serious' cabin. I'd cheerfully own another. Needs reefing points. Mine didn't & was too much a handful in heavy weather. However, at 6'2" & 100kg I could walk all around the gunwales, no trouble. How many 16 footers can you do that on? As a cruiser, it would be easier with a different rig. Maybe this one... http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

hope this helps
AJ

Thanks everyone

I have a bit more to go on now and will certainly check out the article in the aabb magazine on the redfin. AJ how does the TS18 compare? It doesnt seem to get much press against the 16 but would appear to have all the same traits with a bit more comfort?

As for the bolger micro BoatMik, I dont know if it will grow on me even though I have a love of brutally efficient things, it just doesnt pull my strings like a catboat or some of the other sleek designs. What an innovative thing though. I am learning that Bolger was a brave designer and all power to him!

Thanks deefa the phoenix III is lovely and a hard choice between it and the GIS. But having further consulted SWMBO a cabin is now a requirement so I am looking a little bigger I suppose.

Falling in love with the NIS18 and Bolger Chebacco at the moment. They both also appear to have good support networks which seems a big asset for a newbie. Worked on and built plenty of fast things with two and four wheels in the past so it will be an interesting journey to learn some boat building skills!

Cheers everyone and if there are any more suggestions please bring them on.

Originally Posted by thirsty

Thanks everyone

I have a bit more to go on now and will certainly check out the article in the aabb magazine on the redfin. AJ how does the TS18 compare? It doesnt seem to get much press against the 16 but would appear to have all the same traits with a bit more comfort?

G'day Thirsty

The TS18 is a significantly bigger volume boat - closer to full sitting head-room for real people. But I've never sailed one. TS16 is a big dry cuddy on a 16' dinghy which is now a hotly contested racing class. It would reward cutting the top off & re-doing as a flush-deck several inches taller. In fact, there's an article by a bloke in either AABB #56 or #57 who did pretty much that.

Chebacco - I love the looks & shoal draft concept, but came to the conclusion it's a stretched TS16 as far as comfort goes. And lacks TS16's manoevreability. However it would be _much_ cheaper to rig..

cheers
AJ

Good comments in the post immediately above AJ, How did you get to be so smart!!!
)

MIK

g'day thirsty,
If you are feeling adventurous why not build the Bolger Micro Navigator.
Handle the entire rig from the spacious (for 16') cabin and good protection from the elements (less fatigue) plus two big bunks. Should be easy to build as it is a Micro with an added cabin house.
You could sail around Australia in that one!
Cheers
Mark

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Good comments in the post immediately above AJ, How did you get to be so smart!!!
)

MIK

Dead easy MIK
I sat all hunched-up on the porta-potti in the cabin of my TS16 with knees around my ears & a crick in my neck & thort "there has _got_ to be a better way to do this!" (All my best thinking is done on the loo.)
I now apply the 'loo test' to all cabins. Also the "lean-back-on-seat-with-feet-up-&-a-glass-of-port-in-hand" test. Not many small boat cabins pass this one either.
Oh, yeah.... and I read nearly everything I can find that you wrote (and a few other designers besides)
;-)
AJ

Question for MIK...
From your early Duckery days, do you remember Murray Isles' Grey & Chestnut Teals? Were any built ? Were they any good?
cheers
AJ

G'day AJ,
Of course having looked at the plans, I can say that Bolger's Micro Navigator easily fulfils both your loo test and the glass of port test as well as being one tough little yacht but possibly not as fast as the TS16-18, but total weather protection!-I mean like you have the equivalent to a wheelhouse in that little beauty.
Cheers
Mark