Thread: Complete newbie help in choosing boat design

Hi LukeD,
BIG, ask in your questions mate.

The first step is always to choose your design. That is up to you and really not much help ,
can be given at this stage, till you make up your mind roughly what you want.

Everyone will say pretty much the same thing at this stage, so I will put my 2 bobs worth in.

Decide exactly what you want your boat to do for you, in the area you are going to operate it.

You can start with a wish list and work from there.
Decide how much you want to spend over all. This has to include trailer and it's registration. Auxillery power, anchors and lines, safety gear, boat registration etc etc etc.
There is a big cost in the fine details of boat building.
Consumables like sand paper, disks, mixing cups, gloves respirators and all sorts of other stuff have to be part of your boat building budget.

Next, what is the available covered space you have to work with. This will also help determine the size. What is the towing capacity of your vehicle, without upgrading .

Whatever design you choose, skill level is not so important to the home builder, because you can put your time into researching every part of your build.
When stuck you will have the luxury of being able to walk away and ask advice. You say you are accurate, well that is about the best skill you can have.

From my experience the hull cost of your project will be somewhere between 25% and 40% of your final cost. Depending on the design you choose.
Another important cost factor is the "WIFE", make sure she is 100% behind you. You will need a second pair of hands at times, you will also have a project hanging about for quite some time. There will be nights and weekends where she won't see you, so her support is vital. Finances are also importantfor her, so make sure she is on side before you start anything.

This is a very brief reply, as the details of choosing a design and costing it, is one of the biggest hurdles your have to over come.

Cheers
Paul

Welcome to the forum Luke

I'm also starting out in the sailing world, I've got a couple of months on you

I will be refurbishing a 23' planked day sailer with a cuddy cabin, which I just love to death, once the heat of summer has passed. The learning curve is pretty steep but nothing's really hard - there's just so much to pick up.

One of the best things I did was build a dinghy, first as a sailer for the kids but then it became a tender for getting out to the mooring. There's plenty of free plans out there, I built the D5, had a ball and learned so much. It took about a week to build and cost me around $450 (more than the yacht I'm fixing up)

With plans, buying from a designer entitles you to ring them in the small hours of the morning and ask for advice on what colour cushions you should buy. Plans for nothing gets you the same amount of advice...... nothing!! So if you feel you may need some help, buy the plans. If you're game? Jump in, the blokes here have proven very knowledgeable and helpful... they hardly ever laugh at me

Thanks guys. I guess the design that strikes me most is the 18' Tango (a trailerable self draining overnighter sloop), I am just not sure what range it could travel. I have access to a huge shed to build in (think shed on a farm) and I don't have a wife so no boss for me.

The little dinghey is a good idea, but realistically I don't know if I would use it for anything other than getting out to a bigger boat. I don't live particularly near the water so I would generally travel for at least an overnighter.

To me it is as much about building it as it is about sailing. I should do a sailing course soon, that will help me understand perhaps a bit more and give me an idea if I like it (pretty sure I would). In the mean time I might take a bit of your advice Darce and build something else, I am thinking of a strip or hybrid style kayak. Small, fun, super cheap and they look great. They also have some similar construction methods depending on the model and are quick to make.

It is quite confusing figuring out where to start, I suppose that if I had been sailing for years I would know what I wanted, but instead I am looking it as a building project instead. Also I am sure lots of the cost in boats is in the details but here I am at a total loss. Can anyone give me an idea of what a boat like the Tango could cost from start to getting it wet? (http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=465)

Thanks
Luke

Here are links to my current shortlist:
http://www.selway-fisher.com/Yacht2024.htm#
http://www.geoss.com.au/eun_mara/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/vi...guet/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/vi...aban/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/penguin/index.htm
http://dixdesign.com/ch21.htm
The Rona is the Fisher design I like.Not an easy choice-I prefer ply clinker construction as I am used to it after building 3 boats from 8 to 14' that way,and I like their looks.There is no reason you couldn't build a vessel this size as a first project if you are sure your abilities and mindset are up to it-I am glad I learned the basics on smaller craft so I had the self-confidence to tackle a large project,but then a short way into my first one I knew I'd definitely be doing a big one when space and funds allowed.You'll have plenty of time to spread your expenditure over,and trailer,motor,electronics,sails,fittings etc can be budgeted for and saved while the build is progressing.The Eun Mara site does have a cost estimate somewhere,and an email to Paul Fisher would probably get you a ballpark costing.Good luck and keep posting!
Cheers,
Dave.

Hi, LukeD,

Just a very wild guess mate, but I think you could get the TANGO, to the water for less than $10,000.

I am assuming you will be doing some hard bargaining on prices and doing all or most of the work yourself. (except sails ofcourse.)

This guess does not include auxiliary power, or your own added extras.

Big sheds are great. You are very lucky to have the space available to you.

Paul

Tango is a good first project, if the builder has a fair amount of wood working experience and quite dedicated. Though the boat seams relatively small, the project isn't. Expect several hundred hours of effort for a diligent worker.

This is an older design and could easily be converted into an easier construction method (taped seam) which would decrease the amount of effort needed in building frames, stringers and other structural elements. On the other side of the coin, the "goo factor" (my term for lots of epoxy use) rises considerably, which can be objectionable to some folks.

Ultimately, the choice is yours which doesn't make things any easier on you. Selecting a design is one of the "problems" you'll need to solve. Get use to it, as boat building all about problem solving. During the project you'll encounter many (hundreds) of issues that need to be addressed with creative solutions. This is the hallmark of boat building and likely why most of us drink, cuss and smoke heavily, possibly also explaining the high rate of suicide as well, amongst us builders.

You'll find a fine lot here, willing and able to help, when you're really stumped and have nearly run out of beer, in your quest to figure it out the latest problem.

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/da...RYD-14_11C.jpg



http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/da...RYD-14_11S.jpg


(click on links for larger versions)

These are both he same boat. The bottom drawing with a Bermudian rig (taller rig available) with shoal keel, the top a more traditional gaffer with full keel. It's similar in size to Tango, though a lot more boat, capable passage making in open water and lots of storage space, which what your really need in a cruiser.

Several building methods are available, plank on frame, taped seam and glued lapstrake for the double chine version, with a round bilge version acceptable to molding, strip planking and a Lord/PAR method.

My point is there are lots of designs, hundreds in this size range. Plans costs aren't the whole story. In fact, it's a very small aspect of the project. Good plans, will anticipate builder needs. Living designer's can be called and asked questions about key elements you might be having difficulty with. Old plans or very low cost sets usually don't incorporate the latest material advances or adhesive break throughs we've had recently, not to mention you may not be able to discuss a problem with the designer.

mm speedboat had enough of sailboats

How about something along these lines.

I'm sorry, but to me that looks like so many 'glass 1960's era puddle blasters. They handle poorly, particularly at low speed unless outdrive equipped, which most aren't. It has great straight line potential, but little else and no room for a couple of beer coolers, which is an automatic turn off for me. I can see how some like them, but such a narrow function craft doesn't appeal to me.

Luke
Why don't you build a really good little dinghy that can serve as a tender for your bigger boat when you build that but that you can row and sail now to learn the basics? A really good dinghy is the Nutshell Pram - great dinghy for rowing and easy to sail but there are plenty of other alternatives - PAR would be able to suggest a few, I'm sure. Rick

Everyone has given me so much good advice here so that is a great start. I have decieded a few things which is great. Firstly I can do what I want with a little boat, I don't have to go any bigger than I was hoping. Secondly I think I won't go for a design like the Tango, it is a really nice looking boat but you guys are right, it is a lot of work and other methods of build will give me just as good a boat for less work.

Dave has some great designs, and Par had some great stuff too. I liked his boat designs there and they look easier to build. So it is difficult, but getting clearer. Not going for the speed boat though, want long distance without the noise. I ride a motorcycle for noise, I don't need a boat for that

So now I will buy the book "world cruising routes" and plan out my trip. Then I will decide if I will buy or build (since it is cheaper to buy and restore it could be a first boat option). Originally I had thought it would be cheaper to build than to buy a second hand one but no. Building is more fun, but restoring is not "not fun" either so it is a difficult thing to decide.

Thanks everyone for your help, hopefully you will hear more from me once the project is underway.

Luke

Often it's cheaper to buy then build, but it's extremely important that you start with a reasonable base for the restoration. I know a lot of folks that have gone this route and put a lot more energy and money into a restoration (or fix up), then they would have just building the same boat new.

Every one I know in the restoration business will tell you their first attempts were nothing less then taking a bath with their money. Personally it took me a few boats to figure out how to do it reasonably cost effectively.

The key is the restoration candidate. Knowing what to look for, with the particular building method, material(s), systems, equipment and the application specific quirks of the year, model, make and builder are the only paths to selecting a good project boat. Of course most don't have this expertise, so a very well regarded surveyor is typically employed.

Calculate your budget and the labor, then double them both. This will get you in the ball park (no kidding).

Things to avoid? Yep, stay away from odd balls, where there's no sister ships for reference, relatively unknown builders, designers, etc. Surely stay away from home built, because you'll never know what's been done, until you tear it apart and say to yourself "what the hell . . .", unless from a well known local builder, who you can talk with. Try to find a project where plans are available or many sister ships for reference. Don't bite off more then you can chew (one of the biggest pit falls). As a general rule, there's no such thing as a "simple job" or task. Trust me, as soon as you scrape off the paint, a whole bunch of unseen things will jump up and chomp down on your wallet. This is particularly true of steel and wooden boats, plus don't even think about a ferro cement project, even if you do have Italian family members that can lay a mean sidewalk.