Thread: Family Trailer Sailer <18ft

G'day Wayne
I'll definitely have to take you up on that offer, it'd be great to see the wee beastie in the flesh. I'll be at sea for the next couple of weeks, but I'll PM you when I'm back alongside. Hopefully Highpoint get the quote back to me by then, the price of WRC here is ridiculous.

Cheers Dan

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If you need a stable , safe sea boat , with capacity for 4-5 people to day sail, and that needs minimal skills to build, with a cabin . Then the JARCAT 5mt is a better way to go, the skill to build is not great, the extra beam give excellent stability, the boat when built should weigh around 500Kg with sail rig and motor.

An electric motor or 4hp aux motor will not be big enough if going outside, .check the JARCAT group on YAHOO GROUPS .

I built 1 30 years ago and had to sell it due to financial issues, the boat is now in Hervey bay and still going strong.

they also hold resale value , which the old Hartley's do not

Jeff

G'day all

Thanks for the info on the JARCAT Jeff, it looks like a great platform, any idea what height it is once on a trailer (just concerned about getting it in the new garage)?

Additionally, ran into a snag whilst sourcing wood today apparently Highpoint Timbers in WA is no longer milling/trading so I'll need to look elsewhere for Paulownia. I'll probably look eastward for it now, even with shipping it'll probably less than the WRC over here (plus much lighter). This also means I'll probably wait a bit longer now before buying materials so I can put in the one consolidated order.

Regards

Dan

" Additionally, ran into a snag whilst sourcing wood today apparently Highpoint Timbers in WA is no longer milling/trading so I'll need to look elsewhere for Paulownia. I'll probably look eastward for it now, even with shipping it'll probably less than the WRC over here (plus much lighter). This also means I'll probably wait a bit longer now before buying materials so I can put in the one consolidated order. "

I had heard that Highpoint had closed down but it is helpful to have it confirmed. There is now only one commercial saw mill producing Australian grown Paulownia in Aust. and it is on the East Coast. Your on the right track making one large order. I use IPEC to transport my timber and they charge $27.00 per consignment plus a per kg component irrespective of the weight and the number of 'parcels' sent to make up the consignment.

Whitewood

Cheers DAN,

Go for the Paulownia, Have you decided on a design yet.

While the JARCAT is a larger build and a little more involved, you get more boat for your effort, and they will have the carrying cap you want.

They will also handle rough conditions , and give a sheltered ares for children in inclement weather.

jeff

G'day all
Thanks for the heads up Whitewood, I'll definitely go that route.

While I've got the plans for the Goat it's still not a 100% commitment to build it, currently one of my mates at work is tempting me with pictures of the i550, as well as extolling the virtues of the hartley 16 (he's with the local yacht club and sail training school). The jarcat is definitely on the short list. I also want to check with PAR if his RYD 14.11 Discrete in centreboard configuration will fit in my garage on a swing tongue trailer.
Besides all this is a moot point until July now; which is when the minister has said she'll release funding ).

Cheers Dan

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Arrrrrrgghhh

Too many nice designs out there, the most recent one to catch my eye is the Whisstock 119, like PARs 14.11 it's quite shapely and also looks pretty solid. I might just grab the plans for it anyway just to get a better look. I understand it's completely at the other end of build spectrum from the GIS but I might have more luck getting the missus out and about in it (she'd much prefer a runabout, no way I'm building one though ) ). I'll be going off comms tomorrow for a couple of weeks (no internet at sea) hopefully I've made a decision by then, I'll post again when I'm back.

Cheers Dan

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G'day, back alongside (if only for weekend).

Ref my previous post, has anyone built one of the www.whisstock.com boats or has formed an opinion of them. I've used the magic of google to no avail. The plan prices are good and what is available in the study plans section seems very comprehensive, albeit very WEST orientated (I'll use aussie Boatcote). Obviously they're a fair bit more complex than the Goat, but they also look a bit more family friendly.

Cheers Dan

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Dan,

A nice looking boat, if you go this way your build will require a lot!! of time and this style of hull is labour intensive, and not to be undertaken lightly.

Please consider ,the following,.

1 where will I sail ?
2 will I trail , or moor
3 is it family friendly(wife & kids)
4 COST TO BUILD!!!!
5 RESALE VALUE in a country not renowned for traditional style boats.

If you are a first time builder, start simple and work up to this style of hull construction, if as most Aussie boaters you intend to trailer your boat, this design for it's size is 734KG's plus what ever you put inside, . I would not be surprised if your trailer weight for the boat did not exceed 1000KG's.

Also this style hull construction does not lend itself to prolonged sitting on a trailer,
These hulls will HOG , IE: flex in the middle. If you build I would strongly suggest that you acquire a suitable mooring / marina berth for this hull type.

I am not trying to discourage you from building this design, but you as any of us who build boats must take into consideration all the points I have raised here.

HAve you looked at Mike Whaller Designs, from Bribie Island, he may have something that will suit you, also SCRUFFIE MARINE, on the goldcoast, although all his boats are supplied as KITS.

Just some thoughts from me.

Jeff

Thanks again for the quick reply.

Whatever I build it'll have to be on a trailer, mooring fees and hardstand space here in WA seems quite steep. Though I've seen some nice boats at the local yacht club going for free or as near as (<$2000) however most aren't in wood, and again most are too big to trailer an store at home.

I hadn't thought about hogging or sagging on a trailer, I always thought more about these in a big ship severe weather way.

I quite like the Scruffie designs however as you've said they're a kit build, maybe if I win lotto tomorrow I can convince the missus to spring for one.

The Mike Waller designs (in particular the TS540) are on the money however may be approaching capacity for my garage. Ditto the Hartley 18.

The Devlin designs in particular the Eider and the Nancy's China look the goods. However weight may be an issue with these designs, I've got the study plans for both and they seem to be materially heavy.

BTW this crazy boatbuilding quest started with looking at some of Jacques Mertens designs, however they just don't look like a wooden boat.

So here is my not-so shortlist at the moment:

1) GIS-doesn't meet all requirements however meets about 75% of them for what is definitely the least effort, and I have the plans.

2) Jarcat J5 - Best cabin under 5m . However some issues with storage (I'd hate to build it and find out on the trailer it won't fit in my garage.

3) Devlin Eider - Probably the upper limit of what I can fit in my garage and a heavy (read expensive) build. But it looks great and requires a simple skill set (albeit a lot of sanding).

4) S&F Ptamigan 17 - as for 3, plus flat bottomed not necessarily a good thing on the WA coast.

5) Hartley 16/18 - Oldie but a goldie. Probably best just to buy an old one and refurbish it though.

6) Whisstock 15-6 2 berth yawl - Large complex build, and will have the hogging issue mentioned by Jeff.

7) RYD 14.11 Discrete - Probably has the same issues as 6. Plus it'll be a tight fit, but it does look fantastic as a schooner.

8) S&F YM Senior - Original plans revised for S&G construction, and designed to be beached.
I like the Oughtred and Welsford designs however none really seem to fit the bill for this LOA with a cabin (standfast Sweetpea).

Additionally one of the local suppliers seemed aghast that I wasn't going to build a Sabre, basically his thought process was if you're not going to build race (and therefore build the same boat everyone else is using) why bother. Not exactly what I was after.

Cheers Dan

I hadn't thought about hogging or sagging on a trailer, I always thought more about these in a big ship severe weather way.

Honestly, the level of hogging you're likely to expect in the Whisstock 119 is minimal, if not insignificant. Glued lap, with suitable frames, is very unlikely to move over time. On a traditional Lapstrake, yes, but once you go composite it's largely no longer a problem - or so I'm told -especially with a sturdy plywood deck which keeps everything attatched athwartships in a way a traditional deck doesn't.

The Devlin designs in particular the Eider and the Nancy's China look the goods. However weight may be an issue with these designs, I've got the study plans for both and they seem to be materially heavy.

The thing I've always heard about the Devlin boats is that they're fine - but for their cost and size you can have a MUCH more functional/spacious boat. That said, the Eider is quite handsome. The thing about both is, they're somewhat fuller in the keel for trailering.

1) GIS-doesn't meet all requirements however meets about 75% of them for what is definitely the least effort, and I have the plans.

And hey, it's quick, easy and (comparatively) cheap to get a good result out of. I've not considered one, but that's just cos I don't like how it looks.


2) Jarcat J5 - Best cabin under 5m . However some issues with storage (I'd hate to build it and find out on the trailer it won't fit in my garage.

The Cat will definitely be more comfortable and spacious - storage and buildspace, as well as a suitable trailer and aesthetics will probably decide this one for you!


3) Devlin Eider - Probably the upper limit of what I can fit in my garage and a heavy (read expensive) build. But it looks great and requires a simple skill set (albeit a lot of sanding).

If I had more money than I do, and more spare time that I REALLY had to get rid of, I might do this. I think there's other options that will behave (and look) similarly for less cost, but sometimes you just need to do it! I'd be inclined to take the Whisstock 119 over the Eider - for the comprehensiveness of the plan amongst other things.

4) S&F Ptamigan 17 - as for 3, plus flat bottomed not necessarily a good thing on the WA coast.

Always been "eh..." about this one.

5) Hartley 16/18 - Oldie but a goldie. Probably best just to buy an old one and refurbish it though.

I'm building one, so I'm biased - but it has limitations. The cabin isn't terribly useful, so if you want a boat you can sit inside of for a while in comfort, this isn't really it.

6) Whisstock 15-6 2 berth yawl - Large complex build, and will have the hogging issue mentioned by Jeff.

Don't worry too much about the hogging. The laminated ring-frames and glued lap should largely prevent any issues for at least the expected workable life of the boat. More complex, yes, but worse? Not always. .It's probably going to be the most costly, except for........

7) RYD 14.11 Discrete - Probably has the same issues as 6. Plus it'll be a tight fit, but it does look fantastic as a schooner.

I don't know this one at all, but a quick browse has made me feel confused and slightly woozy in some part of me that shouldn't be discussed. very pretty...but probably the priciest option too.

8) S&F YM Senior - Original plans revised for S&G construction, and designed to be beached.

I think i just mildly bypass S&F overall, for no real reason.
I like the Oughtred and Welsford designs however none really seem to fit the bill for this LOA with a cabin (standfast Sweetpea).

I'm not sure how you feel about a double-ender like Wee Seal?


This is a pretty comprehensive list, and all but the RYD I considered at one time and another, and had I known about the RYD, there might have been doubts about my choice - especially if it were built as a gaff sloop.. I think the keel on that is the issue though.

I'd make a list of characteristics that are Most important to Least important, give each characteristic a points value to match their rank, and sum up each based upon these merits. The one with the highest score wins. After you've done that, you can then throw out these results, and pick whichever one you want. At least you've been methodical!

Thanks for the advice

I should probably try some sort of system to work out which one I should build, but in the mean time I've gone and bought the plans for the Whisstock 077 ) . This is the 15'6" 2 berth yawl, the plans are very detailed (over 200 pages) which is a good thing because the build is quite complex. I figured for $35US ($31AUD) the plans certainly deserved a look over. They cover laminated ring, epoxy lapstrake and strip plank construction in quite some detail (though no images), so definitely worth the price for that alone.

The build is massively complex compared to the goat, but manageable in chunks. I need to investigate a suitable source of veneers for the rings, I was thinking meranti (easily available at large green warehouses) vice khaya (no idea). Any thoughts?

Cheers Dan

Still adrift

PS. I checked out the Wee Seal and while pleasing to the eye she is simply too big 18'6" loa (that's pretty much the length of my garage).

Capturethebeer

Still get posts on your search but don't follow it closely. I have sold several lots of strip plank Paulownia recently for sail boat construction of craft around 25 feet. There are designs now available that recommend using Paulownia. I don't want to influence your search for the right boat. What I wanted to add is that it is possible to substitute Paulownia for meranti (perhaps with a 10% increase in dimensions) and get a much lighter but equally strong craft. Paulownia bends easier than meranti, takes gluing extremely well and would also suit the laminated parts of your build.

Whitewood

Dan,

there are cheaper sources of ply wood than the big green shed,.

they are actually expensive!!!


Check your local area for timber / ply wood wholesalers, and then marine suppliers, IE BOATCRAFT , FGI etc.

They will be able to point you in the right direction for your ply, .

take your time with your build , enjoy the build and when you hit a wall, stop & re read the build instructions, and have 5minutes break, .

Most important is that the boat you build is what you feel fits your needs and when you out grow it will resell .

Cheers,

Jeff
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