Thread: Lugger plans

Get a PM off to Wild Dingo (here on the fourum). Shane. He's been salivating about pearling luggers for donkey's years.

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

Get a PM off to Wild Dingo (here on the fourum). Shane. He's been salivating about pearling luggers for donkey's years.

Richard

salivating indeed Richard!! :eek: Not I he cried

Rightio then... first up I see your in Broome so get onto the West Australian Maritime Museum in Freo and ask them if the plans for Trixen are available... Trixen is the one they have restored and resides in centre place at the museum... as far as Im aware they maybe but dont know how much you would pay but the ones Ive had have no offsets just a sheet of the sail plan and another of the building arrangement... ooh clarity here I did not get mine from the museum... zar ar many vays to skin ze cat non?

Scondly... go to woodenboat.com and put up a post asking for the same info specifially ask for TonyH to respond... I probably will but dont mind me its Tony you want... hes in Sydney and into EVERYTHING Luggar related was involved in the most recent book on the subject and the redoing of the plans for Redbill for the book... it may take him a bit of time to respond busy as a bee stingin yer bum is young Tony but persist and you will be rewarded with a bloke with more knowledge than Einstien had hairs standing up on his noggin

Thirdly... since your in Broome and I know theres a couple up there (have two sisters who live there) why not get onto the owners and see if they would let you take the lines and offsets while shes on the slip for routine maintenance? They at least may be able to point you in the right directions and may well even have some plans of their own you could copy... worth an ask anyway

Fourthly... a wee note on these boats... the majority of them did not have plans as such but were built by eye and from half models created from other luggars... the boatbuilders of these workboats (as you know they were workboats back then and not the tourist boats of today) they made them not to flash or to a fine degree so much was hit and miss... but mostly they created them from half models firstly then from eye from there on so plans are very rare as are the original half models... I know that when they decided to restore Trixen for the museum they had to first take the lines and offsets from the original boat so they had a starting point from which to work... actually come to think on it if memory serves they actually rebuilt Trixen better check that my memories a real sod most days

Fifth... These boats as you would be aware were build like the proverbial brick dunny shytehouse... huge massive timber keels frames and deadwood 12in x 1 - 1 1/2in wide planks huge knees and carlins... you plannin on building one? If so theres a bloke in Freo that sells the massive great Karri and Jarrah timbers from the old wool stores that I may be able to put you onto... mmm if I can ever remember where I put all that info that is... mmm if it survived the flood of 18 May 2005 that is... have to check that!!

Sixth... and I promise the final... So many luggars were discarded and left to rot or were scuttled as the Pearling industry moved on and these boats became redundant... not too many sygnificant Luggars remain although a couple have been recently restored over east... anyway theres one in Mandurah that I can direct you to... if you want to cry your eyes out that is... however... you could if your keen enough still take the lines of her and then once done smooth them out by laying them out... shes called Buccealeach or B6 once the pride of the Broome fleet now owned by a dipstick shytehead who bought her to restore and keep and who has first started doing some much needed maintenance to her then decided that it was all just too hard then did buggar all maintenance for well over 5 years... this after her being in good nick enough for him to sail her down from Broome to Mandurah... then when she burst her planks and sank left her at the bottom of Dolphin Pool for a further 5 years and then when the water ways mob decreed her a danger to other boats fined him heavily and made him salvage and remove her from the water wherein the dopey dropkick took her to a bush paddock out the back of Mandurah and just dumped her there where she still sits rotting her guts out to this day

But... if you were serious enough and determined enough you could get a rough set of lines and offsets from her remains well enough to start to proceed to drawing them up and fairing them in last time I visited her about a year ago you could if you were extra careful still get inside her to do so... and you could definantly do so if you have laser levels and such... you could also get enough info on the sizings of the timbers and other things to give you an idea of what you need... I gave up it was just way to sad an experience to hadle but I do have an imagestation album dedicated to her

man just writing this reminds me of another thread!!

If you still have problems then send me an email and I will put you onto Tony directly.

Me? Slaviting what is that anyway? ooh right you mean Salivitating eh? and you an author Richard :eek: ... but I dont salivitate over Luggars mate.. I have an affliction its a disease you see called Luggaritis Extraudinairious theres no cure for it... and symptoms include uncontrolled liquid excresion from the gob bulging eyes frothing at the mouth and terrible tremors or the extremities... I will thank you to keep your discriminatory comments about my affliction to yourself young fella!!! or in the words of the immortal Aunty Jack "I will rip yer bloody arms orf and hit yer over the head with the soggy end" so there!!

Good luck with it Richard

Originally Posted by richardm

I'm looking for plans for a pearling lugger, as used in Broome, Western Australia in the early 1900's. Any idea where I might start looking Thanks

Can't help with plans,but there is a pearling lugger in the Queensland Maritime Museum. Would some photographs of be of any use?

It's big. Taking lines off would be a major task.

They have on in the Brissy Mueseum too? Excellent!! beautiful boats for sure and its great that the museums are onto that fact

It is a big job they averaged around 50ft LOA and 13 or so feet beam... but theyre not altogether that high as in draft when standing alongside them all bilge for the cargo see?... so although a major undertaking to take the lines off if one was persistant and determined not impossible you would agree eh!... Ive often thought of buying a couple of good quality laser levels and going back to B6 and taking her lines off... from outside!

ooh and your pics would be appreciated thanks!!

Thanks for the quick reply Shane, I missed a word in the original query, It's actually a scale model that I want to build using frames and planks-I'm feeling like two short ones at the moment Richard

aahh so... now that may or may not make the hunt easier depending on how anul you choose to be

Other than the above... you could... as I said get onto one of the local owners and see if they will allow you to take some FEW measurements off her... you wouldnt need a total lines or the total offsets just the main ones... okay so what ones will you need?

I would go the length and beam first... thats both Length Over All and Length On Deck (LOA includes the bow sprit) rather easy if you have a boat in front of you ala seeking out owners.. Then the stem and keel timber sizes (note here from outside you will only get the width of the timbers to the rabbet as the rest of the deadwood is inside the boat) as theyre your main basis to start from... everything progresses from these numbers get these and you have a starting point from there I would

Go to the transom area and get that turn its a buggar but its the unique shape you need so get the numbers from the deadwood right up there at the sheerplank... one way to get this is to take your keel length right the way to the end of the transom this will mean standing a straightedge down from the transom to the ground meeting the straight edge youve run from the end of the keel... take the measurement back from this point to the end of the keel... this will give you the angle you need for the transom area... Id love to be able to say this is easy but its not its a buggar it would be easier if the transom at the sheer ran in a direct line to the keel but it doesnt and the ones Ive seen show that you cant even rely on running that straightedge from the transom at the sheerplank to the rudder then to the keel as the keel is also offset inside the angle you need to find (is that understandable?)

Then I would take some measurements at various sections of the hull... 50ft luggar the least I would take is one every 10ft and even this isnt enough as you need to capture the measurements at the stem through the turn in the bilge to the bilge to the turn in the transom area also the measurements at the keel of these same places... but this should give you a very basic outline of the hull shape at various points along the length of her

Then draw in the house deck and mast locations you can do this from the markings youve already made

I wont go into getting the diagonals!! :eek: although with working the lines and getting a few of the most important numbers for the bilge itself the stem and stern you will find it of itself... get a feel for the boat as you draw it out even if you have to redraw it a hundred times it will suddenly be there

Take copious photos marking with little yellow postit notes the corresponding locations to points youve notated these will help you no end

Then take it all home and rough it out lay down the lines from the numbers... again as I said it will depend on how anul you want to be... if only an exact scale model will do hunt up the plans its the only way you will get it... if close enough is good enough then this will do it for you... in your laying down you will see where your numbers may be out by a few 8ths or so dont sweat it just curve to the right place you will see it when she smooths out.

You will find when your making the scale model that the turn in the bilge is easy compared to the turn in the transom... be aware of this if need be bulk up the planking in this area or do as they did back then butt smaller planks to the long planks as you come around join behind the butts with another peice of timber as thick as the timber used and overlapping some inches this to copy what was done back then before scarfing with poxy and googe came in...

How do I know this? experience building a scale model of Trixen!! Oh and another thing? when its done put it up higher than your eldest kid can reach!! Cause the blighters will get it down and will take it out sailing and if theyre like my pack of hoons will decide that there are pirates in that thar waters and well... they have a hoot of a time... sigh even when the garboards pop and she lists to port even when the masts crack and tumble coverin the finely done decks in rigging and sails... sigh even when she starts to rapidly go down they will be laughing hysterically like a bunch of demented chooks at a barbie!!... sigh

What are you planning on making her from please dont say balsa!! Your in for a friggin nightmare if you do!! well I did have nightmares due to that stuff uggh never again will I use balsa for a scale model

Finally Richard me ol mate up there in Broome if your gonna send me an email from here you best change your own settings so I can respond in kind... youve made your settings so I cant email you back... otherwise pm me! easy as!! still Im open to responding as much as possible on the thread since there may be others who also love the old girls (these taking of lines and such could relate to any boat rather than just the luggars in question by the by ) who may be interested in what were yarnin about

Note here!!! I am not an expert nor am I a professional and I dont profess to know everything and hopefully dont come accross that way... I just know a few things and am willing to share what I do know and am happily content enough to learn new ways to do the things I think I may know... or at least try them to see if it does make something easier better or quicker... but I dont know everything and I do know theres others here who make scale models who I would also appreciate input from!! So if Im wrong here please step up and correct me or offer up your own experiences knowledge and whatever!!

Hi Richard.

The Aust National Maritime Museum in Sydney has a Broome Pearling Lugger in their floating collection. Details are:

"John Louis [name of vessel]
This pearling lugger comes from Broome, Australia's original multicultural society with its mixed population of Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders, Asians and Europeans - all engaged at one time in the colourful and hazardous pearl shell industry.
A fleet of unique, ketch-rigged craft evolved and worked until recent times, making them this country's last commercial sailing craft. John Louis was acquired in 1987 at the end of a 30-year working life. Built as a flush-deck craft in the 1950s, the raised foredeck and pilot house were added later and reflect changes in diving technology and crew conditions during the course of her working life.
Length: 15.64 m overall
Beam: 44.39 m
Draft: 1.73 m
Tonnage: 34.45 gross tones, 22.79 nett tones
Sail: Auxiliary ketch, area 58.3 m2
Propulsion: Volvo MD50A diesel, 126 kW
Construction: Carvel on sawn frames"

The people in the library there are very helpful (expecially if a donation is made in return for help!) and have plans for many of their vessels, as well as others. I have built a model of the Krait with their help, and am bulding the MB 172 motor launch now...they were helpful with plans for the latter 9had to draw my own for the Krait) as well as pics, history and allowing me to get on board to take photos. If they have plans for the John Louis or other luggers, they will let you know as well as the cost to copy and post them to you. Just go to www.anmm.gov.au and follw the research and library links.

As another option, there is a gent in WA called Brian Lemon who made a model of the pearling lugger 'Sam Male' - featured in issue 116 of 'Model Shipwright' quarterly - looks great and he may have plans of the original, which I believe is sitting in a park somewhere in WA. Let me know if you want more info, the article probably has the location of it and where he got the plans from (I cna send you a photocopy of the article if of interest).

Good luck with it in any case - be a great boat to build and explore the coast in!

Regards,
Darren

Hi (again) Richard...

I missed the post saying it was a scale model too...so you won't be sailing it around WA!

PM me with your post details and I can send you a copy of Brian's article on building the model. Then he or the WA or ANMM should be able to provide plans.

Regards,
Darren

Good on yer Darren!

The Sam Male I believe is still in Broome... it was sitting in a park in the middle of Broome back in the 80s when I was there but Richard can better tell its location

mmmm did you get the info on her beam wrong mate?

Beam: 44.39 m

44.39 metres!!! BEAM??? WOW!!! Never seen a luggar THAT wide!!! :eek:

Said with a smile mate said with a smile And thanks for the info and link through

Hi Dingo,

A cut and paste straight off the ANMM website, and I didn't read the details...damn wide boat, wouldn't roll much but you'd need a decent motor to push her through the seas!

I think they put an extra "4" in there...will mention it to them next time I''m in touch.

Well spotted!

Regards,
Darren

Originally Posted by ModelShipwright

Well spotted!

Regards,
Darren

aahhh sometimes I plan for it and at other times it just happens! I must away and have a gander around their site maybe send an email who knows!! I wonder if they have pics of the boats in their collections on their site? ooh I could be there for some time if they do!!

Shane (and apologies to Richard for hijacking the thread!),

The ANMM has some good pics of their fleet of boats on their site. Have a look also at www.australianheritagefleet.com.au - lots of great boats (and ships) in their collection, and decent pics on the website.

Staff/volunteers at both places are mightily friendly, so if you can get to Sydney ensure you visit. The library is great too, and as mentioned the staff are extremely helpful and respond to emails and faxes quickly. They haven't let me down yet!

Enjoy the web surfing and associated drooling...

Regards,
Darren

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Ive often thought of buying a couple of good quality laser levels and going back to B6 and taking her lines off... from outside!

I've often wondered about that. How would you tackle it with laser levels?

Perhaps that should be a new thread??

ooh and your pics would be appreciated thanks!!

The only picture I have is off the Maritime Museum web-site.


I was actually suggesting that if Richard wanted some photos I could call in there and snap some from different angles.

Also, just heard of another acquaintance who "made a half model of a Pearling Lugger", so that might be another source of useable offsets.

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Good on yer Darren!

The Sam Male I believe is still in Broome... it was sitting in a park in the middle of Broome back in the 80s when I was there but Richard can better tell its location

mmmm did you get the info on her beam wrong mate?


44.39 metres!!! BEAM??? WOW!!! Never seen a luggar THAT wide!!! :eek:

Said with a smile mate said with a smile And thanks for the info and link through

Yep,

The stats are right

She is a representative of a Sydney Pearling lugger.

Most of the pearl action in the 1880s to 1930s was based around Broome and other tropical areas. It was only belatedly realised that in deeper water off the NSW and Victorian coasts that there was an unexploited resource of quality pearl oysters - a larger variety of Pictada Radiata (which before had only been noted as a commercial resource in the Middle east where it is known as the Gulf Pearl Oyster.

Because of the greater depths, greater distances to the fishery from the commercial ports it was woth building much larger mother ships than up North. The other reason was that the actual pearl diving was done with a diving bell type apparatus to prevent the direct pressure of deeper water on the diver with the normal diving suit/weighted shoes and helmet setup current at the time. The bell also allowed a team of up to three divers to work in concert within a single bell - so instead of bringing the bulky oysters back up to the surface there was a team to prise open the oysters and just take the pearls up to the surface. It was actually quite an eco friendly operation as the oysters went back close to the area in which they were picked up.

This bell apparatus was necessarily heavy and the early boats had problems with stability when pulling the bell up over the side. They could do it in calm water, but with the touchy weather and wind against the set (ie current) conditions of the NSW and northern Vic coasts generating nasty sea conditions when the winds had any southerly component it was often impossible to actually do the final heave to get the bell back inboard. So the narrower boats often had to cut the bell free - AFTER the divers had swum back to the mother vessel

A simple solution was to build much wider boats than have been seen since and simply bring the bell back into a well in the middle of the boat. A similar structure to a Wet Well in a trawler.

Sadly it was a similar problem as with the Orange Roughie - no one realised that the oysters at these depths and with the cooler water took centuries rather than decades to lay down a pearl with the end result that the originally promising fishery was economically unviable after a few (very lucerative) years.

Anyway, the "Male" family were involved in the coal mining in the area immediately to the south of Sydney (Coalcliff etc) and made their fortune when transport and industry ran on anthracite. They got into the pearl business right at the beginning as a way of diversifying their income. They built one of the first "big beam" pearlers but when the bottom fell out of the market they had to make a tough decision.

One of the watch captains on the first "Sam Male" had worked his way up from deckhand - Hu-xien "David" Zhao - originally of one of the established Sydney Chinese commumity. He had originally been involved in the hazardous diving, but when dysbaric osteonecrosis (a long term diver's disease) caught up with him he proved too knowledgeable to lay off so had the opportunity to get first his coxswains and then master's ticket. He was one of the first of the chinese community to gain this qualification - more valuable in that day than now.

He suggested that they move business over to Broome so something could be salvaged from the capital expenditure involved in the boat. At that stage the Broome Industry was mostly run by European background owners using Asian labour (the Japanese were not to acheive their dominance of the industry for another 40 years). Hu-xien was one of the first people of Asian background to be managing one of the fleets.

That however was the end of the big beam pearlers which just were not fast enough to be viable in tropical waters and were subject to marine borer attack in the tropics as they had not been built to take that into account.

So the end of a fishery - end of another type of boat designed for a specific use - another bit of history gone forever.

Iron men in woollen slips

MIK