Thread: Sailor's Home Waters and Design

Originally Posted by BobAshley

Is this important or just incidental in shopping for a small boat design? Would a designer typically ask a client, "So, where you gonna sail her?" as part his/her customization criteria?

Good questions Bob and if I may say it is very important to understand how the characteristics of a particularly design will suit the area sailed.

How big are your lakes?
What are the usual wind speeds?
Is the launch area steep, rocky, mud you get the idea?
Will you trailer and launch at all times or moor occasionally?
How many crew will you generally have with you?
Are you concerned about capsizing?
Do you want to camp out overnight?
What is the alternative propulsion when the breeze drops out, oars or outboard?
and my favorite
Will the skippers I pass on the lake give me a nod of approval

A few things that come immediately to mind.

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Good questions Bob and if I may say it is very important to understand how the characteristics of a particularly design will suit the area sailed.

How big are your lakes?
What are the usual wind speeds?
Is the launch area steep, rocky, mud you get the idea?
Will you trailer and launch at all times or moor occasionally?
How many crew will you generally have with you?
Are you concerned about capsizing?
Do you want to camp out overnight?
What is the alternative propulsion when the breeze drops out, oars or outboard?
and my favorite
Will the skippers I pass on the lake give me a nod of approval

A few things that come immediately to mind.

Thanks, for the brainstormed set of questions. I'm copy/pasting them into my file of "stuff to think about" in selecting this or that design. I think your first two questions bear the most direct relevance to my question on what might described as the nature of waves in small bodies of water and its influence on small boat design.

...and here's how I'd answer your question set


How big are your lakes?
- mostly small, some medium ( a few square kilometers)
What are the usual wind speeds?
-light to medium, protected waters mainly
Is the launch area steep, rocky, mud you get the idea?
-any/all of above
Will you trailer and launch at all times or moor occasionally?
-never moor, sometimes no built launch ramp, just beach
How many crew will you generally have with you?
- 1 (50% of time) 2 crew (40% of time) 3 crew (hey let's row!)
Are you concerned about capsizing?
- Not with an reasonably rightable craft
Do you want to camp out overnight?
- No, unless design can accommodate King Size mattress and box spring
What is the alternative propulsion when the breeze drops out, oars or outboard?
- Sail 60-85%, Oars 15-25%, Outboard 0-15%
and my favorite
Will the skippers I pass on the lake give me a nod of approval
- I'd get more of kick from people pointing and laughing!

bob

Howdy,
Good Questions!

I would say that probably for sailing that boats for almost all locations will not be much different if the aim is sailing in 7 to 15 knot winds.

But once you move out of that range the differences appear quite quickly.

Local wind conditions will bias the sail area to be larger or smaller, also different countries have different notions of performance. Water temperature can also be relevant.

Most designers attempt to think outside their local conditions to some extent - after all we want to sell our boats around the world. But there will still be some biases from the location of our sailing and perhaps even more from the type of sailing we find enjoyable - we want to share that.

Best Wishes
MIK

I design specifically for the clients home waters. A San Francisco Bay commission, may have comparatively less rig area then a south eastern client. An open waters boat more redundancy and structural heft then a protected waters craft. The considerations are endless.

Most boats will fall into a specific set of guidelines or classifications such as the "Recreational Craft Directive", specific ISO or ABYC guidelines or other NMMA, SNAME, Lloyds requirements, etc.

Once within the frame work of the classification you're targeting, you pretty much have boundaries that you should remain within, which helps refine the design brief.

For example most small craft fall into category C or D, which are inshore (C) and sheltered (D) waters. A Cat. C craft may be expected to encounter 2 meter waves, which can easy overwhelm a Cat. D craft, if they have to take these conditions on the nose for very long. This same craft (a single Cat. C and a single Cat. D) will be expected to tolerate specific wind strengths, such as Beaufort 6 for a Cat. C, which would likely test the breaking strength of the spars on a Cat. D which maxes out around wind force 4.

Some of these guidelines also govern stability, structure, visibility, hull identification, flooding, hull/deck openings, loading, crew capacity, power recommendations, etc., etc., etc.

On the other hand you can just wing it and make it up as you go. Most craft generated like this tend to be overly heavy, complicated and slower then necessary. This is because it's fairly easy to design a structure that will float and remain in one piece during use, but it's considerably different to design a structure that is economical to build and operate. Since most of use care about both of these options, some study across various disciplines is usually necessary.

So, to answer your question, yes. It's one of the first questions I ask. Some locations and areas need certain peculiarities in the design. This question and many more help define the design brief (the goals of the design). With the design brief in hand, you have a much better chance at hitting the points of desire the client wants, therefore a more likely shot at a successful rendering of the client's wishes.

Originally Posted by PAR

So, to answer your question, yes. It's one of the first questions I ask. Some locations and areas need certain peculiarities in the design. This question and many more help define the design brief (the goals of the design). With the design brief in hand, you have a much better chance at hitting the points of desire the client wants, therefore a more likely shot at a successful rendering of the client's wishes.

Thanks PAR. As I suspected the simpleton's question sets an encyclopedic knowledge base in motion! It helps reinforce the idea that when prospective consumers are looking for a recommendation, e.g. 'What is the best daysailer?' they should also put together a user's profile which can help inform what you refer to as a "design brief".

Is there an example of a design brief criterion which consumers predictably tend to overlook or misunderstand? Me, I really don't understand what "stability" really means and why I haven't yet seen an ad for any boat plan which doesn't boast it. I'm thinking about flat bottoms, which look like they don't want to rock initially, but I can imagine are suddenly less stable than a round bottom at a higher angle of heel. Wouldn't the round bottom hold on for dear life longer, while the flat bottom suddenly trip?

Zen mind, beginners mind.

bob