Thread: Sea going rowboat design considerations

Thinking bout a round world trip Daddles?

Originally Posted by echnidna

Thinking bout a round world trip Daddles?

Mate, if I could leave the kids for that long, I'd take Redback the length of the Murray - think of the travel book that'd make, the Murray in a 7' boat

Richard
(I'm serious, but can't escape the kids for long enough )

Daddles
Traversing the length of the Murray at the moment in just about anything would be courting disaster..... unless of course it was fitted with 4WD wheels!

A mate at work took his 14' tinny up to Blanchetown last weekend.
Above the lock seemed fine....
Below the lock.... well that was another story.... got a bit stuck on no less than 4 sandbars...... his wife was starting to freek out as the sun slowly set..... pondering if they would ever get back to the launch place
They both got some great exercise using the paddles to leaver off of the sand.........

Now that would be a great chapter in your book......

I'm currently building an Adirondack Guideboat which is claimed by some to be good for rough conditions, I'll find out when it's finished. Here's a link about them http://www.adirondack-guide-boat.com/roughwater.html

As to flat bottom, better with a round or V hull as the flat hull sits flat against the surface of the water even when the surface is no longer horizontal which makes them tippier in rough conditions. I recall hearing that Eskimo Umiaks had flat bottoms until contact with Europeans when they discovered the advantages of the round hulls in rough conditions.

Another option could be an Irish Currach, a canvas covered wooden framed boat. There are many regional variations determined by the local conditions. If you get a chance to see an old black and white film called "Man of Aran" you will see some in very rough seas. http://currachs.thisbetterworld.org/

Guideboats are double enders, currachs have transoms so I don't think there is a clear advantage. A high bow with a lot of flare would get you over the waves rather than through them but you wouldn't want it too high or it would catch the wind.

Both these boats are light weight for handling on land.

I'm sure there are plenty of other options but these too were the ones that came to mind.

Anyone who googles 'row boat' comes up with the Adirondack Guideboat but I'd never seen that page. Rather impressive isn't it. Thanks for that. The problem being of course, you can't get plans for the things and I'm afraid I find their excuse a bit too glib.

Still, a very interesting link that's fired a few ideas, particularly about what is needed

Richard

too tired to dig into the Currachs link too deeply

I used plans from Nick Schade at Guillemot kayaks http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/AGB

I also used this book although I'm building it as ribless strip plank. The book still has a lot of useful info and has detailed drawings of the Grant guideboat that Nicks plans are based on. http://michneboat.com/Book%20Info.htm

The plans of some of the different Currachs is on this page http://www.thisbetterworld.org/cgi-b...ngsFromHornell

There has also been an interesting series of posts following the building of a Currach, the last one being at http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/Gree....pl?read=67230

Another option is a Faering although it would be heavier. http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/m...gallery?KID=31

Kelvin

What about this one

http://www.gartsideboats.com/catrow2.php#bob

regards,

AD

Quite like the Garside boat AD,

However it is designed from the ground up to have enough extra stability for a sail.

Stability means hull volume in general.

Hull volume means windage.

Windage means it is hard work to keep the boat on line when it is blowing.

Take some of the volume out by narrowing up the boat and it starts to look quite respectable as a rowboat. Reduce the freeboard a bit.

But nice qualities of the Gartside are the double ended hull.

Reading the blurb it mentions his "Flashboat" - which is a name I recall from the early days of Woodenboat magazine. It appears at the top of the same page.

That one is a bit closer - nice narrow waterline - but to my mind all that flare is going to mean that waves will like to roll it around quite badly - I think that to squeeze the beam down further would make it an easier boat in rough water. But you lose the spread for the oars - but you could still use 7ft6 or 8 footers at 4ft beam.

Actually that puts me in mind of the first boat I ever built - A Francis Herreshoff Rowboat.

Here is a pic off the net


And a whole gallery of building one is on the net.
http://www.woodenboatfactory.org/Gal...um/index7.html
this is one of the images and shows the hullform


Plans are in John Gardner's "Building Classic Small Craft" - I think the State Library has a copy of his earlier work which was in two volumes. Not sure which of the two had this boat in it.

But Gardner is well worth reading - so why not get the book? It is a cheap way of getting a bunch of plans. I built the bottom out of 9mm and the sides out of 6mm. Eliminated the ribs and put in a couple of frames at the seat stations.

The curved sides will give it a much more relaxing stability curve than a dory which are pretty twitchy beasts by comparison unless they have similarly curved sides (but then one would have to argue that they are not "really" a dory - hehehe!

Would be interested to see what PAR might suggest - his country is much more serious about human propulsion that ours is.

Also while looking for the rowboat link I found this ... a thread that talks about open water rowing. It goes on forever - but might yield some boat designs to google.
http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a....2dwater+rowing

Best wishes
Michael Storer.

I had my hands on Gardner's book a few years back and one of my thoughts was to get it again and build a ply version of one of the designs. Am I right in imagining that his comments on the worth of each design would be pretty spot on?

Interesting your comment about the US and rowboats - any search pulls up a lot of american hits but you'd usually regard a lot of that as just noise due to population size, I'll now revise my parameters in that respect. It's also really hard to work out what is good and what isn't because everyone seems to believe theirs is best for some reason. Funny the number of amateur designers who've designed the perfect boat on their first attempt

I'm leaning towards something traditional ie, a hull form born of long experience. The problem will be the one of function - traditional work boats were designed to carry a load and while I'm larger than needed, I don't qualify as 'a load' yet. I'm sure there are old recreational boats from way back though, and there is a decent collection of modern designers using traditional knowledge to design for modern recreational boaties building with ply and poxy (feel free to blush Mik).

Whatever I build, it won't be a 'blast from the past' - floatation tanks blow that image out of the water immediately and while fake ribs can look cool, I'm a leery of adding stuff 'just coz I want to'.

For a long time, a local tile warehouse used to put their old pallets out the front with a sign up saying 'free firewood'. It was very tempting to raid the pile, fire up the thicknesser and make a planked boat. Still might ... only I need another source of timber. The thought was cheap (as in free materials, biggest cost would have been the paint), fun and 'disposable'. Sadly, I maintained my reason until the warehouse closed.

I'm not commenting on some of the other suggestions made above as I'm supposed to be doing a uni assignment and haven't looked too closely at them yet, but don't worry, this is a serious research project for me and no suggestion will be overlooked.

Richard

The recreational rowing scene in the USA is HUGE compared to here.

Hey PAR - where are you - you must have some hints and tips about this!!!!

MIK

How would your rowboat handle the conditions described above Mik?

Richard

There are a lot of really good "pulling" boats left over from a time when rowing yourself to work or the local store was reasonably common.

When I was young, I remember seeing lots of pulling craft of many different configurations.

I'm not sure of the length you have in mind Daddles, but a few pop into mind for your needs. The first is the Modified McInnis Bateau a 12' 8" double ended, multi chine "tripper's bateau". The original versions of this boat were "guide boat style" and intended to carry hunters or campers and permit fishing. They have some loading capacity, especially for a 12' boat. A modern interpretation would have this boat much lighter (and more water tight) with taped seam plywood construction, rather then the clinker or dory lap construction of the earlier models.

Another is the Herreshoff rowboat (L. Francis), a well known double ender of wonderful ability. It's 17' with a 42" beam and under 100 pounds built lightly in conventional lapstrake. This could be lighter still with taped seam or glued lap build. It is round bilged, but has a flat bottom plank.

John Gardner has a rendition of this boat, very slightly modified which may prove the better boat, by a small margin. Both are detailed in his book "Building Classic Small Craft". The Herreshoff boat has lines in his book "The Common Sense of Yacht Design" though there are no offsets, but it could be scaled reasonably well enough for a model to pull offsets.

Of course the various Whitehalls, but these will likely have more capacity then you need. A Matinicus Peapod has the same issue, but is a fine sea boat. Maybe a small pilot gig would be suitable.

A boat could have a transom, but the underwater waterlines should show considerable "balance" in the ends or you'll have following sea issues. The classic whitehalls do carry a transom, but it's general well clear and the lines balanced.

Thanks PAR. I might look very closely at the Herreshoff - not only have you and Mik suggested it as suitable (the only item that NEEDS to be ticked), there has to be some satisfaction in building one of his designs.

Can you see me Mik? At the Goolwa boat show, taking a sip of me coffee and saying casually, 'it's a Herreshoff'

I've got an assignment due this week and another the week after, so real reseach will have to wait. One lecture a week is held in the State Library which has a wonderful maritime collection - I'll go in early, check things out and if I like what I see, buy the book

Richard

No-one has tackled the oar question - traditional diamond cross section blades or curved blades, endurance vs power?

Richard