Thread: First timer!

Is there a sail insignia?

It sounds something between a Mirror and a Heron

Could be something obsure like a Wright Intermediate,, or could be someone's one off design.

shouldn't be a Wright.
Their mast stands in the forward extension of the daggerboard case, well aft of the
deck. Longways seats are also non-standard.
cheers
AJ

Hi Jazzman.
I am a novice with limited timber work experence.
I do like good looking boat that performs well and have had a few years expereince in sailing small boats <18'.

I like the look of the Stevensons project sailing boat plans for the weekender and the Skipjack.
Both models are made with just the full length keel.
Weekender is cabin and Skipjack is open.
Ply construction.
See The Stevensons Project webpage [Google search.]
I am tossing up which model it will be for me first but I think it will be the weekender.
Regards,
Dragonfly.

There are hundreds of designs along the scope and scale of a Weekender and Skip Jack from the Stevenson's, that far exceed the abilities and build quality of the Stevenson offerings.

In fact, I would go as far to say you'll be quite disappointed with a Stevenson project design. I've very active at a site that once featured all Stevenson stuff, so I'm very familiar with their designs.

None of the Stevenson designs would be considered fast. None of the Stevenson designs would be considered a "good performer" by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. None of the Stevenson design are easy to build, nor do they use modern methods and materials.

I've seen a lot of designs that have flaws (all do), but these are the only ones that I openly suggest people avoid. Pick your poison wisely.

Mark, a site is something I keep meaning to get around to, but work always seems to get in the way, though I have posted a few designs (Murphy included) on the new WoodenBoat Magazine Plans Directory. Now that things have eased up a bit, maybe it'll get more consideration.

Good idea Par, well worth the effort.

Hey PAR,

I've got a question for you.
On one of the other sites, a guy has just launched his Romilly.
Its an absolute Beauty(actually I think its the rig that does it for me).
But its also strip planked.
While I'm still a newby, I have learned one thing, and that is, that Sanding is for Chumps. Do you know of any similar boats(with big cockpits) that can be done in ply lapstrake?? (lug yawl of course)

cheers


Mickj

Mickj, there are dozens of glued lap designs and hundreds of lapstrake designs that could be converted to glued lap. Most round bilge designs can be converted to whatever build style or method you desire.

I don't know enough about your needs to make any suggestions. Design choices are very personal and sailor specific. What I like, may be just the thing to convince you I'm blind.

Sanding is a necessary evil, but it's not bad if you do it right, employing good technique and proper tools for the applications.

PAR,

I'm intrerested in a decent coastal cruiser.
Something that can handle a 6ft chop.
Originally I was thinking about your Murphy. I remember reading somewhere, you said that he mast can be moved to the bow. I also like the open plan of your Kestrel.
So there is a theme here...large open cockpit, with no interferring masts
But wait, there's more. I'd like a cabin big enough to sleep 2.
Essentailly, this is what the Romilly is. What I don't like about the Romilly is the build method.

Where I live we don't have access to a lot of timbers.
We can get good quality ply. We have access to a timber we call Paulownia(its similar in weight/strength to WRC). And of course we have plenty of hardwoods like Jarrah.

I can only dream about getting a hold of some 3mm Veneers.

So I'm favouring a Ply built boat, with a fairly simple design(preferrably no carbon fibre masts either).

Am I asking for too much??


Cheers


Mick

Are you talking about the Nigel Irens 22' lugger?

Well I don't have anything that remotely resembles that design, nor do I have a single lug rigged design. This is mostly because I'm not very familiar with the lug.

There's a considerable difference between my Murphy and Kestrel. Murphy is a single chine, V bottom, taped seam plywood build, with a covered foredeck and additional freeboard for rough weather efforts. Kestrel is also a single chine boat, but flat bottom and built from aluminum plate (~2 mm hull plates). They both have open cockpits, which is common of all my small boats, but Kestrel also had a small cuddy worked up, but Murphy couldn't carry one.

Then there's the size differences. Murphy is a 16' 2" LWL design, that carries 115 sq. ft. of sail on a 790 pound hull form, while Kestrel is over twice this in volume and sail area and has a 18' 9" LWL.

When you compare these to Nigel Irens' Romilly, the issue becomes further clouded as that boat is 20' 3" LWL about 25% more hull volume then Kestrel and considerably more then Murphy and carries a lot more sail area too.

The point I'm making is these designs are far apart in concept, size and execution. One is a round bilge, cuddy boat with a high tech rig, next is an aluminum flat bottom with a gaff yawl rig (could be done in plywood), while lastly the smallest of the bunch is a V bottom with a simple free standing, Bermudian sprit rig.

I see little commonalities between them honestly.

Most any round bilge hull design can be converted to a glued lap build. It does take some experience to place the planks where they'll actually twist without a lot of cussing or edge set. Some say this plank line off is a bit of an art form, I don't know, but I can say most designers spend a lot of time on it.

In short, I think you need to refine your needs a touch. Do you want a round bilge or chines? A better handle on the volume of hull you want is necessary. The cost of the build is directly related to this figure, so having a real good idea what you want is key. Murphy is .4 ton, Kestrel is about a ton while Romilly is 1.32 ton. There's huge disparity between these, which needs to be refined.

Rig choices and build methods can be mixed and matched for the most part. A better idea of how much boat you need, which is usually governed by the type of sailing you do, where this will occur and the average duration of outings. Naturally, plus all the little things you desire in a specific design.

With this in hand, you'll limit your choices sufficiently enough to narrow you focus, which will then apply more light to the subjects before you (design choices). It's a lot easier to select from a handful of very similar 18' boats then dozens of 16' to 24' boats.

I guess that difference between me and you PAR,
When I see a boat I look at how pretty she is,
when you see a boat you look at how she is built

When you look at a pretty women, do you question how she is built
(Well ACTUALLY, I've been to Bangkok, and I guess you really do need to question how she is built)

I've just finished building a welsford navigator, and while its a beautiful boat(I know how she is built the cockpit is a bit on the small side. So I'd like something bigger than 4.5m.

The boating laws where I live state, that any boat that is greater than 6m must be registered, also if the boat has provision for a motor(excluding tenders) then she also must be registered.

So my reasoning is, if I have to register this boat, then I may as well make her worth while, A minimum of 6m otherwise I'm not really getting much more than the Navigator. Note, we pay yearly licensing fees, that have just recently doubled in cost.

So I'm back to my original requirement, of a coastal cruiser, that has a lot of cockpit space....oh and don't forget the rigging, its gotta have one of those

Clear as mud!!


Cheers


Mick

Mick,

What about a Bolger designed Chebacco?

Google Image Result for http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2001/Jerome-1.jpg

In clinker ply she would be quicker than strip plank to go together and also has a small cabin for two and large cockpit and gorgeous sheer to boot.

Just a thought.............

AD

Thanks for the advice AD.

I've got copy of "Boats with an Open Mind", and I'm also a member of the Bolger yahoo group. So I was aware of the Chebacco. But I've never seen those photos in that link you provided. Beautiful!!!

It certainly looks like it can tick all the boxes.
Unfortunately, there have been complaints from people about getting plans from Bolger and Friends. Since Phils passing, things have really slowed right down. Suzanne(Phils partner) is sill coming to grips with what happened.

Someone like Duckworks should approach Suzanne and offer to take care of the administration and selling of boat plans. I have heard rumours that all of Phil's plans will eventually be donated to the Mystic Maritime Museum, so maybe the supply of plans will eventually dry up altogether.

I might try sending off an email and see if I get a response.

Thanks for the advice.


Cheers


Mick

Mick,

You could try a post on the US Woodenboat forum for some plans. There are probably some serial plan buyers on there with a set that hasn't been built from who may wish to sell.

Let me know how you go with gettiing a response.

regards,

AD