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16th August 2015, 04:34 AM #46New Member
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Rob,
Just found this thread and wanted to say I'm willing to work with you on the hybrid system. Is there a particular unit you had in mind?
Also sorry about the "wl" on the website, I have no idea how or why that was there, it should dissapear shortly.....
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16th August 2015, 10:58 AM #47SENIOR MEMBER
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Tad , firstly thank you for replying.
I've had quite a "conversation" with Les , and while he really likes the aluminium boat , he is well aware that it is a compromise , like just about any boat.
For me , with inexperienced grandchildren , it may not be attractive to them.
For me personally , I would like to go to hybrid power.
I have been corresponding with this chap for years http://www.hybrid-marine.co.uk/5.html , and it looks suitable for a TC22.
The issue of course is the weight and dimensions of the batteries Odyssey PC1800's http://www.odysseybattery.com/marine_battery_specs.aspx .
My thoughts (FWTW) is that the diesel could come back in to the cockpit V drive , and with the batteries under a flat floor in the cabin.
I really like the way the aluminium boat is set up , for sailing , and control aft , good for trolling.
I'd just like the quiet of motorsailing , using just enough electric power to get trolling speeds , but always having adequate diesel power on hand.
I believe in marine ply/epoxy , it could be set up in to a really nice quiet trolling boat , with enough room for the wrigglers , as well.
Thanks again for replying , and I'm eagerly awaiting your opinion.
Regards Rob J.
Regards Rob J.
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17th August 2015, 07:22 AM #48New Member
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Rob,
Okay, I'll take a look at that. Luckily I'm a huge fan of the Beta/Kubota engines. The 29 HP Nanni installed in Alpine Sea is more power than she can use, I go with either the 20 or 25 Beta. There's only 30 pounds between them, but it all adds up. One of the problem with V-drives is that it pushes the engine up, raising VCG and reducing stability. I'll make a sketch of the v-drive, perhaps tomorrow, and post it here, then we'll see where we're at.
The batteries are another issue, there's very little space under the cabin sole, but a lot under the cockpit. It's going to be a juggling act......
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17th August 2015, 07:31 AM #49SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks Tad.
Yes the VCG is vitally important.
Regards Rob J.
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23rd August 2015, 05:55 PM #50SENIOR MEMBER
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Does anyone have a reference on V drives ?.
Regards Rob J.
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24th August 2015, 03:36 PM #51SENIOR MEMBER
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Trying to research V drives.
While I can't find anything so far remotely like this application , my little pea brain is saying to me , what about a remote V drive ?.
That should keep the weight very low , and allow the gearbox to be placed where appropriate.
And give us a balanced boat.
But that is just what I've got off the internet.
Rob J.
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24th August 2015, 07:19 PM #52
V drives do tend to move the engine up, but the VCG doesn't move as much as you would think, because the addition of the V drive helps pull it back down some. More important is the LCG, which tends to move forward. On most boats this isn't a big deal, but if it's a high speed boat, it might be enough to make the boat reach its longitudinal instability point sooner (the boat porpoises).
Considering the size and shape of your boat, I wouldn't get all that worried about the VCG. Hell, 4 well fed crew members will place the VCG a few feet above the CG, so the few inches in height difference over the straight shaft setup, isn't worth getting a bad hair day over.
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24th August 2015, 07:30 PM #53SENIOR MEMBER
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PAR , I'm just a punter mulling over a boat design , you are the expert.
But with a remote V drive , and 4 heavy batteries , shouldn't we be able to get this boat balanced beautifully , and trolling under sail well?.
Thanks for your reply.
Regards Rob J.
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25th August 2015, 08:57 AM #54
Yeah, you'll be fine. Come launch day, you'll probably move the batteries around a touch, maybe not, but you'll be fine. At trolling speeds, you probably will not have to move a thing.
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25th August 2015, 09:50 AM #55SENIOR MEMBER
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PAR , my pea brain again.
If we have the engine weight etc concentrated in 3-4 feet in the centre of the boat , then proceed to troll from the end of the boat , then the boat will be out of balance.
If we more than double the engine weight , with batteries , keep the weight as low as possible , and have the weight distributed over say 6ft in the centre of the boat , the effect of trolling from the back of the boat will be lessened , correct ?.
I just know when I sailed HS , that weight in the extremities affected her motion adversely , but distributed around the centre , she went beautifully.
Regards Rob J.
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25th August 2015, 07:23 PM #56
Small craft (anything under 30' or so) tend to change trim with about any movement. My little dayboat will change trim if I spit hard over the rail. This isn't a problem generally, though if you do plan to troll for long periods, you might want to consider PPI (Pounds, Per inch of Immersion)and trim angles. Both of these are pretty easy to figure out, so you can adjust the boat's trim underway.
As a rule, at these speeds, it's usually not that important, though if she's way out of whack in terms of dragging her butt or stuffing the bow, efficiency goes down the dumper. I don't know enough about you boat's shape and weight(s) to offer much more, but the math is quite simple, if a little tedious, without software (a scientific hand calculator will do). Simply put, with some figures punched in, you can move things around or even have a specific weight that gets moved. I have a little (12') tinny I fish and it's 9.9 HP outboard does fine, but I'm often on the electric trolling motor and at one end of the boat, so I move the spare battery to the other end of the boat, such that the transom doesn't scoop up water. In other words, I know that this 35 pound battery, placed 7' away from the CB causes 245 pounds of tipping leverage and alters the boat's trim, which offsets my weight at the back of the boat. To get these figures, you work with the PPI and trim angles, once you have the basic dimensions (LWL, WL beam, etc.).
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25th August 2015, 08:30 PM #57SENIOR MEMBER
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Yes PAR , you are right about boats changing trim and balance very easily.
On the Grey Seal Huon Seal , one of the very good dinghy sailors that taught me sailing had me sailing the boat just on body position , within the boat.
She sailed well enough to leave the tiller , and just move about her , to change direction.
And when I got her , she was a shocker , for balance , particularly in the big seas around Portland.
There was a great big 180kg lump of Yanmar YSE12 in her , and the engine box over it meant you could only sit in the back of the boat.
The batteries were as far forward as possible , and everything else of weight.
So , in a heavy swell , we had this see saw effect.
I soon gave the YSE12 the flick , and Garry Stewart put in a more powerful 80kg Lombardini twin , which allowed him to lower the sole considerably , and allow the skipper and passengers to sit further forward.
And bring the batteries back.
The end result was a more powerful boat under power , that handled the swell and heavy seas very well , without the see saw effect.
And yes , I had thought of having a couple of the batteries moveable in the TC22 , if needs be.
They are very heavy , so wouldn't have to be moved much.
Regards Rob J.
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1st September 2015, 08:02 PM #58SENIOR MEMBER
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I had a talk today with an old Coast Guard mate today , who has been a fishing charter skipper.
I told him about the TC 22 , and his ears pricked.
So when I got home , I sent him some stuff on the boat.
Haven't heard back from him yet.
Rob J.
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2nd September 2015, 09:40 AM #59SENIOR MEMBER
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I got a reply from my mate this morning , he reckons the TC22 looks the part , and should suit our waters.
The tuna season is still going , hundreds of boats are still out , a bloke caught a 164.3 KG tuna on Sunday !.
I've asked him again for the trolling speeds he used for tuna , and the albacore.
Regards Rob J.
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2nd September 2015, 09:13 PM #60SENIOR MEMBER
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This is what my mate had to say
Ok Rob
You troll at 6 knots for most tuna fishing but sometimes it is better to be at 8 to 12 knots ( only 5% of the time)
The vessel looks really good for trolling
Nice back deck area (that is where all the action will take place)
Once you hook up you keep the fish out the back or on the side ( easy to move the vessel to maintain this) .
So , the TC 22 would be able to cope with 95% of the tuna trolling , which would be fine by me.
I wonder what Tad thinks of all of this ?.
Ya there Tad ?.
Regards Rob J.
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