Thread: Boat timber Help!

Skarp,
I must say I have procrastinated about posting a reply to your post. You sure know how to put the boot in. Give us a rundown on the species you are looking for.

cheers
Steve

Hey there Steve!

Hey.... you're the only chap who's been helpful to me since I arrived in this area, emailing me quite a lot about the suitability of Paulownia for my last build.
It's a damn shame that Paulownia didn't suit my uses, as I wished I could have completed a transaction with such a decent fellow.
Thanks Steve.

Elsewhere I've lived, including Tasmania and Shetland, the small sawmills were keen to cut precisely what I, and everyonelse, desired.

This damn throat infection may be making me a little more irratible than normal too.

I'm not tarring all sawmillers with the same brush here, obviously like all people of all trades and creeds, you get some good, some bad. I've just had a bad run of luck lately.
Some guys are brilliant, lots in tassie. Some are simply motivated by the easiest way to turn a dollar. That attitude rips my heart out, when some of us do a hell of a lot of sweating and still don't have two bob to rub together.

Steve I'm not after anything tricky, if you've got a clear, three foot diameter log 10 feet long.
Any species with a tangential shrinkage of less than 8%, radial shrinkage of less than 4%.
preferably a timber without interlocking grain, clear of gum veins and scribly borer.
White Stringybark, Flooded Gum, theres a heap that would be suitable, I'm not all that fussy really. Even grey ironbark might be okay, it's still soft when it's green.

Steve is that Paulownia able to be cloven with wedges and hammer?
If so I might buy some to carve a few bowls.

Have a pleasant evening!

Skarp

Skarp. A simple request works best rather than slamming all and sundry.

See what transpires from now on but any more posts of this nature will not see the light of day.

Out of interest, exactly what is it that you are attempting to build ? I am facinated. I am about to build a small dyngy myself, but I suspect you have slightly different project in mind.

PS, welcome to the land of the long weekend mate!

Your best bet would be to look up local boat builders and find out where they are getting their lumber.

Hi Skarp,

All Tasmanian hardwood timber apart from pallet material is sawn on the quarter so its readily available here. If you E mail me direct I'll give you appropriate leads and contact names to follow. Should be no problem at all.

Whilst hardwood E. regnans) has been successfully used in boats here the more usual species are Huon Pine and Celery Top pine. Both still available but very expensive. Again I can assist you with contacts.

PS It's normal practice to have the material for boat ribs cut on the back- sawn orientation. Bends far more successfully that way with less breakage.

Old Pete

Hi Pete, How are things mate?
I used to live in Tasmania, and the millers down there were a great bunch of guys, always willing to help. Up here on the mainland, it's all about money and not working for it.
I've thought about having some timber milled down your way, but the freight charges scare the hell out of me.
I'm familiar with the Tas timbers but wanted to throw myself into the local woods up this way, having not had much to do with them before, apart from Spotted Gum and Grey Ironbark.
I'm not after timber for bent frames mate, I use grown crooks and hew them to shape.
I'm after material for planking. Heaps of it!... because it's a "trial and error" half scale model.
I agree that the backsawn timber bends better, definately. I wouldn't build a longbow any other way.
I rang two numbers recently, of suppliers I've used in the past, and they've both shut up shop. Hope thats not going to become a trend.
I'll send you an email as you've invited me to do.

Kusa, How's life over there?
I build boats using unseasoned wood the way our ancestors have done for thousands of years. Boats are still built in these ways in much of Scandinavia and those islands in the North Sea and North Atlantic.
I don't have any power tools and rely much on cleaving logs with wedges and hewing with the axe, shaping with the drawknife.
I don't use plans or moulds, instead I have a rough idea of my intended garboard deadrise, overall length, beam, depth of hull, waterline entrance/exit etc. I let the timber assume the bends they'll take and build until it looks right. If it looks right..... it is!
I don't think people have enough confidence in their eyes, they tell more truths than any tape measure or straight edge.
This boat is going to be quite unusual, another complex shape in my head, so my wife thinks it would be a good idea to build a half scale model first to fully understand the run of planking and overall shape. The idea is that this build will be more timber efficent than previous projects.
Tell me about your dingy Kusa, does she exist in your minds eye and has just got to be chopped into shape, or will you be using drawings and measurements?
I'm really interested in the sewn boats of the Kola peninsula, often built by the Saami, and expanded log boats like espings from Finland also tickle me.
I'm also intrigued by skin on frame craft such as currachs, although I haven't attempted any of these types.
If I can't find some timber in the next month I may be forced to start a skin on frame job though.

PAR, I have telephoned as many boat builders as I can, to find out where they have their stuff sawn. They've all been strip plankers, cold moulders or lapstrake ply builders though.
Those few that deal with traditional construction don't build entire boats, they only do repairs and apparently have the same trouble as I'm having in finding wood.
I knew a fellow 15 years ago who told me quality boat wood couldn't be had in this country and he consequently bought $100,000 worth of Kauri from New Zealand to build his 55 foot trawler yacht. He also bought teak from Burma, I suppose for the deck, I never saw the deck, but the hull was massive.
Now I don't know much about epoxy but I think he told me that he had spent close to another $100,000 on glue!!! Does that sound right? I may be remembering it wrong. She was triple diagnal planked, all glue, the screws backed out before the next layer of planking.

Anyway I must leave you all.

Enjoy your afternoons and mornings!

Be well,
Skarp

Hey Robo, Hope you're well.
I'm not attacking you with this post, ok.

"All and sundry" would mean that I have an issue with everyone on this forum.
Thats not true, if it were true then why would I waste my time here, seeking aid?

My post explained, quite well I thought, my current predicament, at the mercy of those in our society who like to take advantage where they can, at the expense of others, and suffer no guilt.
I know many in my situation, and am certain that everyone on this forum has, at one time or another, had the misfortune of doing business with the shady.
It is also true that this type of business is more prevelant than it used to be.

Those words of venom, certainly not the entire post, made example of these folk who are morally complacent, a corruption that stems from being idle and having too much comfort and affluence in their lives.

Those that feel I'm attacking them are either:
1) Poor at comprehension and have missed the point of the post, and have take umbrage at remarks not pertinent to themselves, or
2) Correct, they are money grubbing, lay abouts (Who the hell would make this admission by defending their actions?

People in cyberspace will take personally what ever they wish to, and I can't be responsible for those who naturally feel guilty about something they haven't done, or are of lesser intellegence or education.
I've noticed that some will even take offence at another who is typing in capitals, as if they are being yelled or snarled at. Makes me laugh.
Some will always manage to find malice where its not intended.

Should we try to end these injustices in society, for the betterment of humanity? Or should we put this sort of scum on a pedestal where they can ply their filth from an ever more powerful platform?

To ignore these very real issues would be, I feel, dishonest.
And to ignore the emotions of resentment and urges of violence would be equally dishonest.

When you are tricked out of a few hundred quid for sub standard materials, it would be wrong to smile and take it in your stride. That sort of action only encourages the same crime to be committed on others.

Would you ask of me to pretend that society is perfect, because we are at least free of these raptures in our minds?
I'm sure the Chinese government asks that of the Tibetans most everyday.

Thank the gods our ancestors at Bannockburn had more fire in their hearts than you have.

Go on, delete it, if it makes you fee better. Show us your true colours.

Have a pleasant evening everyone

- Skarp.

Originally Posted by skarp

Hey Robo, Hope you're well.
I'm not attacking you with this post, ok.

"All and sundry" would mean that I have an issue with everyone on this forum.
Thats not true, if it were true then why would I waste my time here, seeking aid?

My post explained, quite well I thought, my current predicament, at the mercy of those in our society who like to take advantage where they can, at the expense of others, and suffer no guilt.
I know many in my situation, and am certain that everyone on this forum has, at one time or another, had the misfortune of doing business with the shady.
It is also true that this type of business is more prevelant than it used to be.

Those words of venom, certainly not the entire post, made example of these folk who are morally complacent, a corruption that stems from being idle and having too much comfort and affluence in their lives.

Those that feel I'm attacking them are either:
1) Poor at comprehension and have missed the point of the post, and have take umbrage at remarks not pertinent to themselves, or
2) Correct, they are money grubbing, lay abouts (Who the hell would make this admission by defending their actions?

People in cyberspace will take personally what ever they wish to, and I can't be responsible for those who naturally feel guilty about something they haven't done, or are of lesser intellegence or education.
I've noticed that some will even take offence at another who is typing in capitals, as if they are being yelled or snarled at. Makes me laugh.
Some will always manage to find malice where its not intended.

Should we try to end these injustices in society, for the betterment of humanity? Or should we put this sort of scum on a pedestal where they can ply their filth from an ever more powerful platform?

To ignore these very real issues would be, I feel, dishonest.
And to ignore the emotions of resentment and urges of violence would be equally dishonest.

When you are tricked out of a few hundred quid for sub standard materials, it would be wrong to smile and take it in your stride. That sort of action only encourages the same crime to be committed on others.

Would you ask of me to pretend that society is perfect, because we are at least free of these raptures in our minds?
I'm sure the Chinese government asks that of the Tibetans most everyday.

Thank the gods our ancestors at Bannockburn had more fire in their hearts than you have.

Go on, delete it, if it makes you fee better. Show us your true colours.

Have a pleasant evening everyone

- Skarp.

There are ways and means of communicating your discontent.

That was not one of them.

If you have a gripe with someone or something then voice it but in a calm factual way.

I am not interested in the politics of other countries only in what keeps this board running smoothly.

By the way there is 2 "B's" in my name.

.

I suspect there's a fairly good reason that he's found difficulty with vendors working with his requests. I also suspect these have nothing to do with boat building or wood working in general.

Hi , Hope you're well.

I realise your name is spelt "".
I meant to write "Robo" as in "Robocop", for reasons that I find entertaining.
I can't prove that you are a living creature. Considering the amount of posts you've made, you could actually be a machine of sorts, and of course on this electronic forum you do swing the hammer of the law.
Besides, for all you know it could have been an accident, a typo if you will.
We'd all be a petty bunch if we stopped to point these sorts of things out. eg ", your posts don't read correctly because you don't use enough commas".
Personally I'd rather focus on real-life issues.

, sorry about the post not being calm enough, granted, but it was factual, and those examples I made have all happened since moving to the "big smoke".
Here's another:
Two weeks ago my neighbour bought kiln dried and dressed flooring, and ordered 115% of the total he required, following the advice of a friend.
He has managed to floor 40 square meters of a 59 square meter floor!
The rest of the wood has come over the fence and gone through the charcoal kiln, and is now in my smithy.
The merchant refused to exchange the 185 lineal meters that was rubbish.
Now isn't there an Australian Standard regarding the quality of wooden flooring?
Surely there is one, but who should he contact to have the matter sorted out?
The department of fair trading won't be interested in the loss of a few hundred dollars, nor will a lawyer. That "small claims" tribunal drags on forever and he'll not be reimbursed the full amount, and he'll be out of pocket for the effort and time involved in attending court.
So he's been buggered over, again. Real nice guy too, shouldn't happen to anyone, but this guy is an upright, straight shooting chap, who works bloody hard and is doing it tough, financially.
A loss of a few hundred dollars to him is enormous, put yourselves in his shoes....
Nah that would be too much like hard work for SOME of you, keep your comfortable shoes on.

, my post wasn't about the politics of other countries, and I'm certain you're writing form the heart when you claim that you're not interested in such things.

PAR, you write in a very vague manner, and I'm not apt to read malice into your post if there is plainly none in sight? Must you speak of me in the third person? Please clarify.

I've been building boats and horse drawn vehicles for eight years, and in the two hemispheres of this earth. Over those years I've had minor problems in buying timber and those have always been honest oversights that have been fixed immediatley.
Since moving here, and for the first time livning in a small town close to large cities, I am witness to all manner of greed and deception that I've not encountered elsewhere.
These folks compete for a carspace at the shopping center, they compete to be first in line at the counter. These people look out for themselves and will tread on one another in the process of projecting themselves forward in life. They will rip each others thorats out to make that one dollar. They will lie, cheat and steal. They measure one another by the weight of their wallets, and not by the blisters on their hands. They worship material things and condem those with little, and condem those even more who prefer little.

Good morning to all and sundry

Skarp.

Hi Skarp, Seems like you are an old school ship Wright. With abilities way beyond my current skill set. I'd love to track this progress, please keep us informed I am fascinated!

As for my Perth is right now HOT. Re the boat, US$65 delivered me a set of plans and a couple of books, and ongoing email support from the windmill association. I was tossing up between a Tornado & a Windmill, & figured that this would be easier to build with out the issues of ongoing tramp maintenance. As you may not have heard of this little flyer please find the links, 1st one is a home page, the next is part of the how to build section, & the last is some photos of a very nicely build wooden version. Its a single design class, & I am going to take my time. Dreaming of building 3, & selling a couple to pay for mine.
Windmill Class Association Home
Building a Wooden Windmill
Windmill Class - Photos: Dan Litten's Progress