Thread: Ouside powerpoint

Quote:
It appears that doing electrical work in your own residence has been conditionally illegal since 1989.


Probably longer - I think the legislation codified the already existing position.

However, what needs to be understood are two things:

1. The effect of the specific sections of the Home Building Act 1989 quoted, are that any work done by an unqualified individual must be supervised at all times by someone qualified who must personally ensure the work is done correctly. This means you as an unqualified person can do whatever electrical work you like as long as an authorised (read licensed or qualified etc) person signs off on the work. That person becomes legally responsible for your work.

2. Section 30 (2)(b) of the Electricity (Consumer Safety) Act 2004 places the onus on the person carrying out the work to prove that they fall within the parameters established by the Home Building Act 1989. This means refer to my point above. In effect this is a reversal of the usual standard of proof - ie you need to prove your innocence, the prosecutors (electrical authority) do not need to prove that you aren't qualified or licensed.

In short, and speaking generally, no person may undertake wiring work (even in their own home) without a legal obligation to submit paperwork to the relevant authorities stating the nature of the work performed and that relevant factors have been taken into consideration. That person is legally accountable for the work performed.

The test: If you can't submit the paperwork yourself, you need to find someone who can and will. Finding a person willing to sign off on your work without having supervised it at all stages would, to my mind, be rare. Not only would they be legally responsible, they would have broken the law by signing a document which specifically states they supervised or carried out the work themselves.

That's the legal position as I understand it to be. I'm hoping that I haven't missspelt anything.

This means you as an unqualified person can do whatever electrical work you like as long as an authorised (read licensed or qualified etc) person signs off on the work.

My reading of it goes a step further than that. I believe the legislation requires the qualified person to actually be on site at all times during the work (see 4b in the Home Building Act quoted above), so it's not enough to just have someone sign it off, they need to be there with you while you do it.

I also believe that not just any licensed sparky can supervise the work, I think they would require a contractor's license or supervisor's certificate, which is separate to a trade certification. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by silentC

My reading of it goes a step further than that. I believe the legislation requires the qualified person to actually be on site at all times during the work (see 4b in the Home Building Act quoted above), so it's not enough to just have someone sign it off, they need to be there with you while you do it.

I also believe that not just any licensed sparky can supervise the work, I think they would require a contractor's license or supervisor's certificate, which is separate to a trade certification. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry, didn't make myself very clear. My point was that in signing off on the work you are making a legal statement to the effect that you did supervise the work - as you point out.

Think along the lines of the need to supervise apprentices - the degree of supervision is to the extent that you are 100% certain that the work is done legally and in accordance with all Standards and regulations because that is what you are signing for. Also, supervision extends to more than mere visibility iof the work carried out in some instances, such as testing the tension of connections.

As far as I'm aware any licensed fully-qualified sparky can supervise the work. In ACT, NSW, Tas, WA and Qld any licensed/qualified sparky can supervise definitely, never had anything to do with the other states, so can't be definitive.

A sparky may in somes cases work for a contractor, and the paperwork would have both names in that case, and both bear the burden of legal responsibility. The sparky would supervise, but both their licences are at risk.

Sideshow is pretty much correct
Bearing in mind The Electrical Safety Act Part 3 Section 35(3) States

(3) A Registered Electrical Contractor Must Not employ
a person in the carrying out of any electrical
installation work unless the person is-

(a)a licensed electrical worker of a
particular class related to the
contractors Business;or

(b)an apprentice within the means of
Vocational Education and Training act
1990 in a trade that involves carrying out
Electrical installation work of a class related
to contractors business

I recently discussed this with an electrical inspector
His comment was "gone are the days that I can get my son to help pull cable during school holidays Its now Illegal"

Also be aware that someone in Melbourne late last year got fined $12000
(Yes Twelve Thousand Dollars) for doing some Electrical work unlicensed

Energy Safe Victoria has made it very clear that they will not tolerate unlicensed people DIY.
SO BE WARNED

To think that this thread started with a 4 gang GPO.

To my understanding, a "qualified supervisor" is a tradesman who is "licensed". For example, my original "A" grade electricians license was issued by the Energy Authority of New South Wales (it's a pink paper card & on the front it says, "Unless suspended or cancelled this license shall remain in force during the lifetime of the holder"). Due to privatisation, this license was replaced by the "Qualified Supervisor Certificate", issued by the Department of Fair Trading (NSW). The original electricians license did not require any payment to keep, however, the "Qualified Supervisor Certificate" does require payment to maintain currency. "Currency" simply means paying an annual fee to the Department of Fair Trading. Being involved in engineering (& other things), I haven't paid the fee for ages so therefore, I'm not a "paid up" Qualified Supervisor.

It is therefore important to realise that non-currency of license means;

1] the "tradesman" does not have an electrical license, which essentially means that they have not passed the requirements for domestic wiring (amongst other things).

2] the "tradesman" has not paid his annual fees.

3] the tradesman has been penalised for faulty work.

In any case, all a licensed electrician has to do is keep paying the annual fee (about $200 last time I looked) to maintain currency as a "Qualified Supervisor".

Hi guys thanks for replys
I have an external powerpoint (Doudle)
I need an extra plug as I am installing a swimming pool for
pumps chlorinator etc
Is there a weatherproof extension powerpoint
then that I can plug in to work??
I thought no electrician will come out just
to replace 1 powerpoint.

What will be the cost (labour)

Than k you

The below link is to Clipsal. The pics might give you some idea what you want.

http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOn...kip=0&first=30

The below link is to a downloadable brochure.

http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOn...ureID=700&ref=

Thank you elkangorito
Currently I have a Clipsal
WSCF227/2/15
2 outlets.
need one with 4 outlets

Originally Posted by ger

Thank you elkangorito
Currently I have a Clipsal
WSCF227/2/15
2 outlets.
need one with 4 outlets

I've not seen or heard of a weatherproof 4 gang GPO. Maybe one of the other sparks might know if such a thing is available?

IF worse comes to worst, I guess you have 3 options;

1] Buy 2 x weatherproof "2 gang" GPO's & join them together with PVC conduit.

2] Buy a "4 gang" non-weatherproof GPO & mount it in a weatherproof enclosure.

3] Install the non-weatherproof GPO in a location where it won't be affected by weather (as per AS/NZS 3000:2000).

Hey Kanga

It's the combination of volts and Amps that kill you...not just the Amps.

I feel confident the milliamps is what blows you away. If you get enough current flowing through the nervous system you die regardless of the voltage. You could use your argument to say it is a combination of impedance, volts and amps not amps alone. But I still say it is the little electron sukkers that kill you.

Hey GER where in Melbourne are you

You have said that the Power Points are for pool appliances I assume that it is to be mounted somewhere near a pool
There are regulations regarding distances from pool etc

Well, I have an outside powerpoint
I wanted 4 outlets, so I called my sparkie and he told me he could put in 2x2 weatherproof outlets (one on each side of the post) he was most accomodating - he even let me dig the trenches!

Originally Posted by felixe

Well, I have an outside powerpoint
I wanted 4 outlets, so I called my sparkie and he told me he could put in 2x2 weatherproof outlets (one on each side of the post) he was most accomodating - he even let me dig the trenches!

I had a plumber like that! He let me dig the trenches for the new pipes and was quite happy to point out my mistakes i.e dig deeper.
Got to love helpful tradespeople

Originally Posted by nev25

Hey GER where in Melbourne are you

You have said that the Power Points are for pool appliances I assume that it is to be mounted somewhere near a pool
There are regulations regarding distances from pool etc

The powerpoint is currently on the side of the house
pool will be in backyard about 7 metres away

Thanks