Thread: buy a boat - where to start?

Hi Clinton,
I have sailed both an MG14 (an NS14 with spinnaker and trap) and a 29er. I think you want something in between these two boats. An NS14 would be ideal (an MG14 even better), they are quick and nearly maintenance free, but get a fiberglass one with a self draining deck. There are plenty of older aero 6 and aero 7 designs around which are bulletproof. They wont be competitive in a race against more modern designs but for cheap thrills in the bay they are ideal.

The 29er is difficult to sail, has a heavy hull and is prone to the glass getting soft on the gunwales and foredeck around the mast.

You might also want to consider a Cherub. There are plenty of older designs getting around for reasonable price and they hacve more sail area and are more fun than both the NS14 and the 29er. Plenty of bargains HERE

I'm in your neck of the woods and more than happy to help you blast around the bay!

Tim

If you are considering a catamaran I had a caper cat for 10 years or so. Storage in hulls, I know people who've island hopped with camping gear and food. Slow compared to racing cats but fast enough, very stable, very easy to sail. Would be a nice boat for botany bay. Mine cost me next to nothing to own, had an outboard bracket so it's a viable fishing boat if you like that sort of thing. Very versatile.

$1500 gets you a good one. I think I sold mine for about that.

Thanks guys.

Tim,

The 29er is difficult to sail, has a heavy hull and is prone to the glass getting soft on the gunwales and foredeck around the mast

Sorry, ignorant fibreglass person here... what does 'soft glass mean', and why does it occur?

I assume that 'heavy hull' means just that... its heavy and therefor not so nice to pull over sand and manhandle. ?

Thanks for the comments comparing the MG14 and 29er... I've found a NS14 with fibreglass hull and timber deck, but it has a timber mast/boom.
The original NS14 I linked to has an aluminium mast/boom, but is an older (quite old) ply hull.
I automatically assume that aluminium mast/boom means less failure/replacement risk, but I don't really know.
I'll look into the cherubs as well, and I'm hearing you that the 29er may be too difficult for my skill level.


Damian,

Thanks for raising 'camper cats'... didn't even know they existed. I'll look into them.

On another note, saw an ad for a fibreglass surf life boat with '1/2 cabin' and an 'inboard' outboard in my $ range.
Glad that had sold as that was just too iconic to pass up. No sailing... but it was a surf life boat!

There is a new "dudley dix argie 15" for sail as well. Ply stitch and glue, aluminium mast and boom, rego'd trailer. ok head sail and poor (needs replacement) main sail.
Also a Catspaw dinghy that looks like it is someones baby, but an old build, an old sail plan and again it is with a timber mast.

I guess my 'issue' is that I can repair ply, but don't want to have to, and I assume that fibreglass is less maintenance prone but may not be.

Yours in determination to not spend too much brain power in the pursuit of over researching boats.... back to ad browsing...

An OK dinghy is another that can be purchased second hand very cheap. The class has changed to carbon masts so the older fibreglass boats with aluminium masts are cheap secondhand. And are built tough because of the minimum weight so the fibreglass is unlikely to go soft and bendy (ie fail)

They are still sailed regularly at a number of clubs in both NSW, Victoria and New Zealand and overseas. One design rather than a development class.

The NS14 restoration of that boat was a thread on this forum.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f35/wo...h-more-109969/
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/pa...e-help-108730/
Mark

Slightly above my budget, but not out of range -
Solid timber, strip planked, Catspaw dinghy made as a retirement project and yacht tender.
Belt and braces approach: 2 layers diagonal weave fibreglass, epoxy, then paint on outside, single layer matt glass/epoxy, then polyu varnish on inside.
Looks like someones 'lifetime desire', pride and joy.
Pro's: bulletproof, should be immaculate, simple sailer, 'romanticism of strip planking'
Cons: heavy, not a single person dolly drag on the beach, slow sailer.

I should not have looked at it, its left field and very attractive.

Within $ range is older fibreglass/foam sandwich construction, or ply, Aus 125 boat.
Light (but not very light), can sail 'easy' with minimal sail, with increasing skill level can use the more complex sail rig. Ones in my price bracket show alu mast/boom, and main, jib, spinnaker, and spares. Lower end is ply, upper end is 'glass/foam.

wizend - thanks, I'll look at the ok dinghy.

Mark - didn't know that it was on the forum. I spoke to the young fellow selling it and it seems like he put a lot of effort into it.

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Thanks guys.

Tim,


Sorry, ignorant fibreglass person here... what does 'soft glass mean', and why does it occur?

I assume that 'heavy hull' means just that... its heavy and therefor not so nice to pull over sand and manhandle. ?

...

Hi Clinton,

The hull of the 29er weighs 70kg which isn't light! The soft glass refers to compression of the foam in the hull fibreglass laminate layup. There are a couple of places it occurs such as teh wings, behind teh mast step and the back of the board casing. But for $2500 its still (probably) a good buy.

I'd stick with a racing class if you are after cheap thrills round the bay. Cats are quick, but have a large footprint in storage, other recreational styles are slow and a little dull.

You should check out what they are racing at the Kogarah Bay sailing club which IIRC is nearby you, they used to have Harley TS16's, and NS14/MG14's along with an open class.

Tim

Quick set-up for after work stress-down = stayless rig, probably cat (no jib),
luff sleeve rather than mast track.

Stayless = put-the-stick-in-the-hole vs mucking about with stays & tensions & etc.
A TS16, even with side stays pre-attached is about 45mins ramp time at each
end of a sail. Figure about the same for almost any other stayed-rig boat.
None of it is complicated - there's just a lot of things to do.

OK dinghy & Laser are probably the most common stayless rigs.
I see a couple of Lasers in the trading post for $950 & $1500

Thanks Tim and boat.

I've picked up a lot from this thread... the fibreglass issues, hull weight and stayless (time spent setting up and pulling down) are very relevant.

I'll list 'learnt things' as a summary:
- match sailing ability to boat demands on sailers skill.
- heavy boat, soft sand, beach dolly, does not equal a single man launch.
- Cats can be really easy to sail, but take up a larger space on trailer and in storage (if it doesn't 'break down').
- Development classes may mean the builder has pushed the limits with materials, which may not equate to a hulls long life.
- Development class or class rule changes are the friend of the second hand buyer who does not want to go competitive in a class.
- Racings styles let you to scoot around fast, if thats your scene.
- quick set up, more time spent sailing, less spent setting up.

Other things relevant to me (feel free to correct me):
- older ply may mean more on maintenance as paint can hide many sins.
- aluminium mast/boom may mean less maintenance, but they are not inexpensive to replace.
- fibreglass laminates can slowly fail.
- fibreglass is beyond my current ability and interest to repair.
- flat and shallow draught mean less water being pushed out of the way by sail forces.

I think I'll put the research to bed, make a few inspections and bite the bullet.

Fingers crossed... many thanks to all.

Good luck Clinton,
In the cheap price range there is always some risk and having a look and not letting your heart over rule your head is good practice.

Again, I am pretty local to you and if you need a hand and I'm about I don't mind helping out.

Tim

A friendly warning... stay off botany bay for a while. !

I bit the bullet (after checking a few out over the last while).

Update to follow, along with the decision process in case anyone wants a giggle at decisions informed by ignorance.

This has stretched my understanding and forced me to think long and hard about what I want, what I will be most pleased with, and general sail boat concepts.

I might have a goer.... you lot can feel free to critique when I post pics. (of course you'll feel free!)

12' 6" Catspaw dinghy with spritsail.
Retirement project by an ex-chippie... very fine attention to detail.
Spruce strip plank, mahoganhy for ribs and other furniture (rudder, etc). Pivoting keel.
2 sets of oarlocks, timber oars. 2 layers of fibreglass on outside, 1 on inside.
West system 'pox, epiglass 2 pack paint on outside and epiglass 2 pack polyu varnish on inside.
Laminated stayless timber mast and sprit thingy.
Good trailer.

Took it out today and realised I need lessons.
She got up and went nicely with both sail and oars. (suprisingly quick with the oars)
It only took a few minutes to stand the mast, tie the sprit thingy off, put the rudder on, release the pivoting keel then get going.

Solid timber is more attractive to me than fibreglass, plastic or ply as I think it is more 'reliable' and I can fix it if needed.
I want to sail in all (except dangerous) conditions. A V hull makes me think it can do that.
I don't care about racing but with the sail right it felt fast.

I can fish in this, or go out with other adults.

The big 'killer' was having to repair fiberglass, plastic or ply.
Yes, its 'old school' and heavy... but if I maintain it then it will give less drama than something lighter and flatter. Therefor it will give me more value for money.
Should hold a resale value.
If pirates shoot at me, I can take shelter down in the hull. ( ok, thats stretching it!)
It'll be a right bugger on a beach dolly, but thats the trade off.

A happy, grinning, loon was zipping about on Kogarah Bay today.

Thanks to all that assisted.

That's a proper boat!

Great choice. She looks fantastic.

Cheers, Cameron.

Thanks Cameron.... I like it.

Actually got otu of Kogarah Bay today, down to the Georges River mouth.
Wind was coming in straight from the end of Botany Bay, so I decided to get a bit more practice up before I played dodge the bridge pylons.

Spritsail and mast stuffed up a bit when doing a gybe (?? turning the bum to the wind) as the mast didn't rotate. A little moment of 'will I capsize it'... but it was all good in the end.
Fun.