Thread: When decisions get turned on their bum what to do?

Second installment

I have no interest in buying a boat ready built and risking my life and that of my family and friends to someone else's building methods that may or may not be questionable and hence why Ive not bought one of the many for sale over the years... Ive been close a couple of times but couldnt bring myself to trust someone elses build enough to shell out many thousands of dollars

I like many of the trailer designs out there from Mike Waller and others but the modern boats dont do much for me... I mean one bridgedeck cat is the same as any other... mostly and who wants to be the same as everyone else? if there is a choice Id rather build something different unique and with that aesthetic value that stands out... you know?

My other option Ive seriously considered is to get hold of a "project" boat this would allow me to hone my skills and as it would be bought knowing it would be some time before its in the water I can take my time to replace planks frames and whatever I decide needs to be replaced or sistered to make her seaworthy and safe... the only one thats come along is a wee boat found by a bloke named Mori that Mik put me onto but they wanted {In my view} too much for a boat that needed some serious work to get up to good seaworthy state... great provinence great history and built initially very well no problems there... but they wanted too much for her in my view

The budget for plans is low (comparitvely to what Ive spent since I started this bloody quest) so Im not going to make a desision and buy one or two sets only to find that they arent it and being stuck with two sets of plans of boats I wont be happy building or using over the long haul

Funny how over the years the choice has changed quite radically... initially I wanted a Tiki38 and in fact had boought the plans but lost them along with all the others in the flood last year and you would be surprised how many designers and museums dont replace plans if lost to "an act of god" even if youve only just recieved them as I had in the case of the Tiki... the only one who did was a guy in Nova Scotia who also laminated them "just in case" and a bloke in Boston who had made copies of the plans of one of the schooners I had bought through him those two and Stevensons {Weekender} were the only ones the rest... gone and unless I wanted to pay for them again that was that... not having a go at them at all just a cruel thing to have happen after spending so much in the first place I understand the business perspective of thier decisions no problems but hell I cant afford to do that all over again thats for sure!

Anyway my choice had gone from the Tiki 38ft to a Peterson Coaster Schooner of over 40ft down to Petersons 28ft Susan design to Wharrams Tiki26 (still a contender) and down to -20ft trailer sailers... I have settled much of my own arguments for the larger boats by her bloody highness who with one glance at the cost of marina space in Mandurah said "If it cant be trailered move on" and hasnt changed that view since the move to Bunbury... smart woman her bloody highness So having got hold of a F100 Im now looking at designs that fit her pre-requisites and mine... those above meet that criteria.

Some of the others Ive liked and in some cases have the tiller keel and half the frames (Valgerda by Atkin) and the wheel and keel (Weekender) already done but have sat back and thought "do you REALLY think this is the one Shane?" and the answer has been a very slow outtake of breath "no"... then I saw Paketi and thought "well hello sailor" got a tad carried away... then I showed her bloody highness who said quite bluntly and very rudely I thought "yeah where are you going to keep her? have you bought a truck yet?" eh?? a truck? "yeah so you can traler her home after youve used her" oh ... so as there is no moving the mighty midget... Ive tried but once she decides something thats it... and so along with a long line of other designs Ive had to can Paketi

Other factors that I contend with are: I have one week of in three to do something (2 on 1 off at a mine)... I have a large family her bloody highness and 8 kids along with sundry partners 1 grandkid (6mths) and 2 more on the way... a 2acre property with a creek that needs something done to it but I cant decide what!!... a house that needs replacing etc etc... these are some of the things one has to consider as well... I mean I dont have the time to build a 40ft luggar on my week of!! its simple other things get in the way with only 1 week home to do stuff in... I do have the covered space and tools to do it...hell I have the covered space to build a friggin 70ft schooner out there! but buggar that for a joke!! :eek: Im keen but not insane!... but not the time hence the larger boat is out... yes yes do a little bit every chance and it will steadily get there but mates I want to sail her in THIS lifetime!! I know blokes that are 15 and 20 years into what was meant to be a 5 year build and I dont want to be one of them I guess I want to be doing sailing fishing and such not building all the time!

Next installment shortly...

Third and final installment...

I guess if I had my original budget to play with now I know better and now weve moved here Id have bought the coaster schooner plans AND the plans for a trailer sailer right off... then built the smaller one to use and muck about in while I took the years for the bigger... but I dont the budget puts that out of the frame

So Ive had to go smaller more manageable and trailerable but with room to overnight or for week stays fishing trips away... where the kids can hook her to the F100 and bolt for a weekend while Im away working and where her bloody highness will be content to join me.

Now nothing in the above is to be taken as a whinge or gripe just the way it is... and the way its become... no problems no upset just there you have it... SHE DECREES the mighty midget her bloody highness the loverly possumpoop has said this is what will be... end of story... and cause she is the light of my day the shining star of my nights I accept ... There is also the fact that shes too bloody minded to argue with! I tried that once sigh and the damned to do list went through the friggin roof!!! didnt have a moment to scratch myself for 6 months! :mad: So I learnt the hard way

No one can make our decisions for us no one can say definitively "this is the one for you mate"... all they our family freinds and mates can do is say "have a gander at this one!" and in their efforts to help often confuse us even more!... I dont find that a problem really since if I am swayed by other designs then I wasnt dead set on the one Id chosen its only when you find a few that you keep coming back to that stand out from all the rest that you will stand to and say okay heres where Im at these are the designs that do it for me and why... then you have to decide which one... thats where Im at... I think??? I havent been swayed from St Valery since Crowninsheilds Dark Harbor stepped up then I got those plans and made a half model from them and now Im back with St Valery... its like the Tiki something about them calls me back time and again

Tis a fine dream to dream of large schooner sailing boats but the reality is most of us with that dream will end up compromising for the sake of harmony and end up with wee trailer sailers... but if at the end of the day they fit most of our life criterias then so be it we will enjoy them as much if not more than the dream...

As Ive aged and mellowed I guess I think much can be said for trailering a wee fishin boat up north and piddlin around in some warm bay casting lines for Baramundi and Trevalli and then in the arvo a barbie on some isolated shore fresh cooked bara and a few quiet ales then after a time heading home with a full hold and a nice tan with missus smiling next to me to be a rather wonderous thing to consider... its fine to dream but really reality isnt so bad


WHEW!!! Took some doin that!

And before anyone says it... I DONT DO SHORT AND SUCCINCT!!!

Dingo,

Let me start by saying I haven't read all of your waffle above. I do get the gist of it though.

I too am a procrastinator. I know it's hard to believe , but it's true.

Do something. Life will conspire to stop you doing anything if you don't. Get out there, and do what you can NOW, and the process will evolve.

I've had my share of boats of different types and sizes. I have a big boat in mind too, but like you, circumstances say it's not time yet for a number of reasons. So I think about it occasionally, but until the time is right, won't really dwell on it.

Once, I had a big boat and it broke my heart and smashed a few dreams when we had to sell it, but I wasn't alone.. a mate was in the same position with his dream boat.

I chose to build a little dinghy to "see me through" the tough times (the Goat Island Skiff actually), and work towards that bigger boat when the time was right. I've had a lot of fun, raised my kids and made almost enough dough to start on the dream, all the while collecting a smattering of knowledge and little boats that will make the job easier when it happens. Times change, and the big boat isn't as important now either, so I'm glad I didn't spend ten years forgoing all else to own a white elephant.

My mate decided not to take things lying down, sold his house, worked for 6 years in the yard of a rental place earning not much, till he had his in the water. He didn't have enough resources to finish it, but at least he could sail. He lost his marriage, all his assetts and ended up with a nearly finished boat to live in for a few years, before selling it at a lot less than it was worth, and starting the process again after being relieved of half of the proceeds. Sometimes the dream and the reality don't match.

Another mate, started out with me when we were teenagers, dreaming of sailing the world. I bought a dinghy,built another one, a trailer sailer, another one, a cat, built a bigger cat, sailed with others, raced, built, sanded, painted and generally balanced my family and work life as best I could. I had a ball, and still own 54 feet of boat, (spread out over four hulls of course.)

Over 35 years, my mate has designed, redesigned, changed, searched, bought plans, drawn plans, constantly re-redesigned, and not once owned a boat. (Does that sound familiar) He came sailing with me once, and crewed on an ocean race once, yet still he designs, draws, redesigns..... Knows not a lot for all of that either.

He and I have been talking about motorhomes of late. He's been drawing plans, analysing, re-designing...... I'm going to go and buy an ex courier van (like I did in the 70's) throw a mattress and portaloo in it, and get out there so we can work out what we really need. He'll be dead before he does anything.

So Shane, accept that you have other things in your life that are more important, build or buy the boat that suits you NOW, and the real one will evolve at EXACTLY the time it's needed. Not a minute before.

Life's like that.

Don't waste one more post in all this self flagellation, it could become boring!

Build the Paketi, if building is your thing, then sell her if she isn't right at the time. You'll have a nice bag of cash to start the next one - but sail a dinghy in the meantime (or an old trailer sailer)... one way or another you'll never work it out till you're out there doing it!

cheers,

P (see I can out-wind you if I have to!)

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Dingo,

Let me start by saying I haven't read all of your waffle above. I do get the gist of it though.

I too am a procrastinator. I know it's hard to believe , but it's true.

Do something. Life will conspire to stop you doing anything if you don't. Get out there, and do what you can NOW, and the process will evolve.

I've had my share of boats of different types and sizes. I have a big boat in mind too, but like you, circumstances say it's not time yet for a number of reasons. So I think about it occasionally, but until the time is right, won't really dwell on it.

Once, I had a big boat and it broke my heart and smashed a few dreams when we had to sell it, but I wasn't alone.. a mate was in the same position with his dream boat.

I chose to build a little dinghy to "see me through" the tough times (the Goat Island Skiff actually), and work towards that bigger boat when the time was right. I've had a lot of fun, raised my kids and made almost enough dough to start on the dream, all the while collecting a smattering of knowledge and little boats that will make the job easier when it happens. Times change, and the big boat isn't as important now either, so I'm glad I didn't spend ten years forgoing all else to own a white elephant.

My mate decided not to take things lying down, sold his house, worked for 6 years in the yard of a rental place earning not much, till he had his in the water. He didn't have enough resources to finish it, but at least he could sail. He lost his marriage, all his assetts and ended up with a nearly finished boat to live in for a few years, before selling it at a lot less than it was worth, and starting the process again after being relieved of half of the proceeds. Sometimes the dream and the reality don't match.

Another mate, started out with me when we were teenagers, dreaming of sailing the world. I bought a dinghy,built another one, a trailer sailer, another one, a cat, built a bigger cat, sailed with others, raced, built, sanded, painted and generally balanced my family and work life as best I could. I had a ball, and still own 54 feet of boat, (spread out over four hulls of course.)

Over 35 years, my mate has designed, redesigned, changed, searched, bought plans, drawn plans, constantly re-redesigned, and not once owned a boat. (Does that sound familiar) He came sailing with me once, and crewed on an ocean race once, yet still he designs, draws, redesigns..... Knows not a lot for all of that either.

He and I have been talking about motorhomes of late. He's been drawing plans, analysing, re-designing...... I'm going to go and buy an ex courier van (like I did in the 70's) throw a mattress and portaloo in it, and get out there so we can work out what we really need. He'll be dead before he does anything.

So Shane, accept that you have other things in your life that are more important, build or buy the boat that suits you NOW, and the real one will evolve at EXACTLY the time it's needed. Not a minute before.

Life's like that.

Don't waste one more post in all this self flagellation, it could become boring!

Build the Paketi, if building is your thing, then sell her if she isn't right at the time. You'll have a nice bag of cash to start the next one - but sail a dinghy in the meantime (or an old trailer sailer)... one way or another you'll never work it out till you're out there doing it!

cheers,

P (see I can out-wind you if I have to!)

Right on Midge,

Dreaming is the key to a good life,

If you do something about putting them into reality.

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Don't waste one more post in all this self flagellation, it could become boring!

Just one more??? go on just this one wee post on this self flagellation {why does that sound like it should be illegal? }

I agree... TOTALLY!!... one can get hung up on designing redesigning looking and not doing I know a few blokes like that too... but mate Ive build one canoe and restored a dinghy as well as sailed and motored several boats over the time... I havent bult or bought a large one of my own but have used other peoples from time to time... well a bloke do need his sailin an fishin time!!... not saying I shoulda done more of that I should have definantly just that I dont get totally stymied just slightly stuck is all

I also find these threads rather cathartic as well... sorta put it all on the table and come back and have a gander after youve gone outside for a bit and you know it clears the picture up a lot... makes the choices a tad clearer... sometimes??

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

P (see I can out-wind you if I have to!)

No Im afraid that those few little paragraphs do not "out wind" me... as yet Ive not found anyone who could be bothered to try!!! Well I reckon ol Mik could have a go maybe even come close but "out wind" the Dingo from Dingo Creek? NOT A CHANCE me ol cobbler! What you gotta realize is that the board wouldnt let me put that in ONE post so I had to segregate it into pieces the board could handle... but it was ONE single post ... And there was oohh so much more I wanted to say too

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Just one more??? go on just this one wee post on this self flagellation {why does that sound like it should be illegal? }

Oh alright then.

But then go and get a bigger boat, be it a tinny to go fishing in or a crappy trailer sailer that can take you away and solve your fiddling and repairing craving.

The "nesting" instincts are well and truly on the boil old son, you've got to do something. Somehow it'll be a lot easier to work out while you're bobbing gently at anchor.

cheers,

P

Whahooo!! so I gots yer permission to gets the Wharram midge?? huh have I huh??

you know you never did tell me what your major objections were... care to extrapolate on that matter ol mate? Im actually curious

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

Whahooo!! so I gots yer permission to gets the Wharram midge?? huh have I huh??

you know you never did tell me what your major objections were... care to extrapolate on that matter ol mate? Im actually curious

In the position you are in, get the Wharram. It will speed up your decision making process no end! Seriously, it could be perfect for the position you are currently in, mostly daysailing with a short swim to shore, lots of fishing and not needing to go anywhere.

I thought I did sort of expand.

Read this unrelated snip from a drive report on a very well known show car:

From lock to lock there are 11 revolutions in the steering, so any turn begins a few car lengths in advance. Threading through traffic takes nerve; although the ride is relatively calm, the big frame can buck a few feet in either direction over a bump. People accustomed to driving a school bus from the back seat will feel right at home.

The Tankrod wasn't always this pleasant or reliable.

All a bit like sailing a Wharram really (off the breeze, because they aren't all that pleasant to be on at any other angle of sail) neither are the Wharrams always pleasant and reliable on other angles. The best sailing I have ever done was on a Wharram..... at anchor.

In terms of sailing, safety, comfort and everything but rudder pintle design and pure aesthetics, the Wharram is the model T ford of the boating world. Other designs are just as simple to build, actually work hydrodynamically, can sail to windward, carry a load, have standing headroom and provide protection from the elements.

They are only cheap because they aren't worth much, and sadly many of their builders either don't know any better, or are true "innovators".

Get one, and enjoy it. If you are lucky, it will have been made of regular construction ply instead of second hand packing material and MDF. Wharram builders are nothing if not resourceful! (You will already know that from hanging round their forums!)

Cheers,

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Other designs are just as simple to build, actually work hydrodynamically, can sail to windward, carry a load, have standing headroom and provide protection from the elements.

Cheers,

P

Your post was interesting... and I might add its good that Im not a died in the wool Wharram afficiado too!! And I will say that I do understand where your coming from and where your going with what you say too... I just like to hear it!

I would like to know however what the above designs you allude to are?... aside from Simpson which Ive looked at...and dont say Shuttleworth or that bloke in Queensland Schionning either theyre way way outta the ball park cost of plans wise and with Crowther now becoming Incat theyre out of the frame as well (note here I do like some of old Locks designs from the 80s but theyre unavailable now... I asked )... but Id actually be appreciative to know

Cheers!!

Sorry Shane, you're working on that Mad Dingo tag again

Build yourself one of Iain Oughtred's Caledonian Yawls. Yup, he's a scot but despite that, he's a nice bloke, bit like our Mik only cuddlier:eek: The CY is an excellent wee boat but at 18' she's not all that wee. She'll take you long enough to build that you'll be able to discover all sorts of other interesing boats to procrastinate about. She'll give you something to do now and something to sail while you're building your big boat, plus a great second boat once the big one is proving us all mad for ever doubting that you'd even start a boat let alone finish one.

And best of all, you'd be able to join Nick Grainger's Caledonian Yawl forum and annoy that lot as well as us

Besides which, I really like the CY

Richard

Originally Posted by Daddles

Sorry Shane, you're working on that Mad Dingo tag again

Build yourself one of Iain Oughtred's Caledonian Yawls.

Richard

No No NO

Richard - you don't need to add another boat to the fire. And as great as the CY is I reckon it is perhaps too much building for an in between boat - perhaps.

)

MIK

I did hear a whisper that Stuart Bloomfield, who worked with Lock for years (and I think went to Uni with Brett) has got access to the Crowther portfolio, and is certainly designing small boats. http://www.bloomfieldinnovation.com

But starting in no particular order:

And I'm now talking ply boats only, even though I have some issues with that!

John Hitch designed the Hitchhiker in the 70's. It's an evolution of the Wharram and well built versions can go anywhere, the crook ones have probably disappeared by now! I don't know if the plans are still available.

Mike Waller has done a series of boats which are evolutions of the Hitchiker (my description not his) and look the goods for what you are trying to achieve. http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/

Bob Oram has a great series of boats that work well built of flat panels, but I think he's gone cruising again.

Peter Snell's Easy 11.6 is a ply bridgedeck cat, which doesn't sail as well as some, but there are plenty out there doing it at a reasonable cost.

Ross Turner's Coral Coaster is a real box, a Puddleduck for grownups if you like, but again sails OK, and is probably the best volume/$ going. http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rhturner1/

Now remembering you can't get anywhere near the same length out of a catamaran for the same dollar, because as the length doubles the volume cubes, why not talk to Rob Denney about one of his Harry's? http://www.harryproa.com/ Seriously quirky, and work ok too.

All of the above are Aussies producing better, most are cheaper than your Wharram option, and that's just off the top of my head.

Or you could look at Richard and Lillian Woods in Pommyland, but they might be a tad expensive: http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/

Cheers,

P

aaahhh yes Mr Oughtreds designs... aahhh sweet mercy they are but good to look upon arent they? But I feel if I were to head down that route again I would have to get his Grey Seal plans again such a fine boat that one and the plans leave naught to chance... idiot proof so to speak and that covers me!

The CY leaves me wanting... a wee cabin you know? I sorta get this penchant now an again particularily for some odd reason when its phissin down with that wet stuff to get my bum inside!! and so far as Im aware theres no cabin designed for the CY

But yes nice... real nice

Mad Dingo thing? :confused: What mad dingo thing??? Cripes mate your lucky if you get me not bein "mad" at least 3/4 of the day! Hate bein serious... spoils a perfekly brilliant day does that caper! :mad: Seriously... I can be seriass as much as the next bloke and have been known to be that way from time to time here... yes I know its rare but I have on occasion reverted to seriass... but mate in all honesty? I cant abide it! No real point to bein seriass ALL the friggin time is there?

Mad? ME??!! Not bloody likely ol son... just bein me is all

Howdy Shane,

Why is Paketi not trailerable?

Ducks tow the 34ft Mundoo 3 around all the time. It would be a similar weight.

The coatbout they finished recently is 9ft beam and it has been on several roadtrips. It is just a matter of getting a permit application from the local police - filling the form and faxing it back. Pretty well instant.

Or maybe you are planning to use the boat on most weekends - then the rigging and unrigging might get you down - but there are ways round it with many boats - like what we did with the Catboat's rig - or Richard's rig for the yellowtail. Quick to put up sticks and hoist sails.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~store...idcatboat.html

MIK