Gunwhale... how is it said?

**Capt. Zero** · 23rd July 2007, 01:14 PM

No not a trick question. According to Bowdich Navigation(the mariners bible and the repository of info for the USCG) a ship is any vessel that has at least two masts aft of the beam. The two vessels I mentioned were a small vessel called Morning Sun operated by Monsanto at their Chocolate bayou facility used to vacuum oil spills, tecnically a ship with the two masts, but mesuring 12 feet (slightly more than three meters). As for extremely large boats, I had not even thought of subs which certainly are boats. However, there are vessels that are technically boats but on the surface appear to be ships. Often 250-300 meters long. On close inspection they are actually tugs that have intergrated unit type barges built onto them and float separate from the boat. They can never break out from this barge and float alone. I am not really sure how they are fastened as I am strictly Inland Waters/Western Rivers pilot, but I have ridden next to them and they look like a ship with a groove running up the hull in front of the superstructure. Will see if I can find a photo and post it.
As to a nun buoy, it is shaped like a cone, while it is always on the red side of a channel its called a nun because one can't identify the color in different lighting conditions. Why they don't call greens barrels(their shape) I don't know.
After thinking about the capstan issue, I realize that there are capstans engaged in other industries with vertical drums (oil field drilling for one), I found myself parroting the answer required on my general nav test

. Oops

**Capt. Zero** · 23rd July 2007, 01:29 PM

Also wanted to mention some rather well known ships, yet quite small.
Santa Maria - 31ft. (roughly 8.5 meters)
Nina - 26ft.
Pinta-23 ft.
Golden Hind-39ft.

I once had a replica, the Santa Maria III, alongside the vessel you see in my avatar, M/V Walter E. Blessy. I was towing her from the bayside docks at Corpus Christi to the city docks due to rough weather. She looked like a toy, her main mast barely cleared the 2nd deck railing and length from about the edge of the house on the bow and almost to the engine room door (seen just below the main stack in photo). Hard to believe she crewed 32 to 36 men.

**Ashore** · 25th July 2007, 06:13 PM

The ship or boat question has been around a long time and the fact that there are now semi-submersible vessels that a ship can be transported on could cause some confusion . These are ships that have a high for and aft section and a flat barge like section in the center , they are sunk leaving only the for and aft sections above the water line and a ship is positioned above the center section and the vessel is re-floated lifting the ship with it, (though in truth they mostly transport dredges, floating cranes etc, ) Thus the question then raised is, "When is a Ship not a Ship ?"

**Skew ChiDAMN!!** · 25th July 2007, 06:38 PM

Or when is a boat not a boat? When it's a-board... [groan]

Not long ago I was watching Discovery Channel (I think) and they were discussing a new type of exploratory oil-drilling rig. It was basically a BIG catamaran which they sailed to the site, pumped the hulls full of water until they were floating some 20' under water and then commenced drilling. Apparently it reduces the effect of wave motion and with suitable station-keeping motors avoids the need for pylons or other moorings.

Would this be considered a ship? A barge? A highly technical bouy? ??

**joe greiner** · 25th July 2007, 10:25 PM

I don't have Bowdich, and my Chapman's is God knows where. It seems that definition relates to the amount of power available. Still and all, the Capt. refers to his licensure testing. That's no place for a philosophical discussion. If Sister Mary Whatsis says 2,479 angels can dance on the head of a pin, that's the answer for the test.

The language is still a work in progress, as we've discussed before. Google of [ship boat] reveals a ton of distinctions. Crew size, etc.

I don't think a supertanker has any masts abaft the beam, except maybe radio antennas. I sure can't think of it as a boat, no matter how hard I try.

A vessel like the one Ashore mentions was used to transport the USS Cole from Yemen to Pascagoula MS USA for full repairs. Norwegian, I think. The Norsemen also have the largest floating cranes; one of them was used for erection of the Halifax bridge in Nova Scotia - each piece was precast concrete from CL span to CL span, and perched atop the pier. Piers were also precast single pieces too, IIRC.

Joe

**bulldog** · 25th July 2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Would this be considered a ship? A barge? A highly technical bouy? ??

Just to open a can of worms, it would be considered a ship as it is powered by its own propulsion and would be required by international maritime law to display navigation lights at night and be operated by a "competent" crew, a barge is towed and has no means of providing its own propulsion.

And my 2c it is pronounced gunool.

**Ashore** · 30th July 2007, 12:06 PM

When is a ship not a ship ? After some checking came up with two answers
"When a ship is in a Dry Dock it is not considered a ship"
and for skew "when it's a float"

**Boatmik** · 30th July 2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Capt. Zero

Hard to believe she crewed 32 to 36 men.

And God knows how many chickens.

(sorry, just ignore me)

**Gra** · 30th July 2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Or when is a boat not a boat? When it's a-board... [groan]

Not long ago I was watching Discovery Channel (I think) and they were discussing a new type of exploratory oil-drilling rig. It was basically a BIG catamaran which they sailed to the site, pumped the hulls full of water until they were floating some 20' under water and then commenced drilling. Apparently it reduces the effect of wave motion and with suitable station-keeping motors avoids the need for pylons or other moorings.

Would this be considered a ship? A barge? A highly technical bouy? ??

Bucky fuller suggested something like this for residential development, basically a huge ship that had water filled compartments XXX depth down under the wave motion to keep it steady, will have to look into my books to find the relevant details, but was thinking of it as a retirement community

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