15th August 2009, 01:02 AM #1New Member
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- ACT of Oz
HartleyST16 vs Stephenson WEEKENDER
Thought I'd put this one up to see anyone had opinions.
I've had a mirror now for about three years (actually two) & thinking about going for someting I can take most or all the family on ocasionally & can still keep in my garage. Looked at a half finished weekender the other week & been cruising Ebay etc for Hartley TS16s
Any thoughts on the merits of one over the other. I mostly (two or three times a year) sail on LBG in the ACT. If I can get the missus mor comfortable we might get out more often.
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15th August 2009, 09:03 AM #2
Great to see new members of the Forum!
Are auxiliary motors allowed on the Lake these days? I guess that will influence your choice, to some extent.
The Weekender looks great but I'd imagine there's quite a difference in performance between that boat and a TS16. If you want to race other boats of the same design I bet there are quite a few TS16s on the Lake?
How is the blue green algae situation there now, too, by the way?
15th August 2009, 10:41 AM #3
If you are building from scratch the Weekender is a much easier build. However that is its sole advantage as far as I can see.
The weekender is an OK boat in good conditions even if its performance, particularly to windward won't put the world on fire.
However the TS16 is quite a capable boat and will sail in all directions in any sensible weather. This of course is a safety advantage over the weekender, which I would not trust to get back home it if was upwind against a bit of a chop very reliably at all. The TS16 would have no trouble at all.
When it came to resale you would get some decent money for the TS16 but the collection of cheap stuff attached to the weekender will devalue it.
However, the TS16 is a big build - so if you have been bitten by the boatbuilding bug and it is way for you to get on the water for the first time then I probably would not recommend such a big time investment. Also it only really makes sense to do the A-class construction for the racing TS16 to maximise the resale value - this does put up the cost. Great if the woodworking is seen as being a great process by itself.
However a second hand TS16 in the $2500 to 3500 range can be a great way to get on the water and see if the boat fits in your life usefully. If you take reasonable care of it you will get your money back when you sell it too.
I think PAR has done some mods to the Weekender - I just look at it as a design and shake my head. Though the construction method is quite nice (except he doesn't understand that butt straps should have the grain going across the ply join rather than along it).
But if the weekender was reasonably complete and a rock bottom price I would be tempted to finish it very cheaply and simply.
But I don't see why it has to be limited to these two boats - they both have big strengths and big weaknesses as a first time build. I don't have anything with a cabin amongst my designs so am reasonably objective in this case.
15th August 2009, 02:09 PM #4New Member
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Thanks for the good advise. It all seems to go along with my current feelings. I'm not planning to build at this stage so I'm leaning towards the $2500-$3500 TS16 option.Unless anyone can suggest any other 16' trailer sailers with cabins.
I'm already on the water (ish) with my Mirror(when the B G algee allows) we had some closure of the lake last summer. but it's open now & with luck we'll get a full seson in this year. I might even get on the water more than twice. We took the mirror to Narrooma at Christmas & that was a hoot, but I need to make better preparations for cleaning up after salt water.
17th August 2009, 10:14 AM #5
The good thing about second hand Hartley 16s is that they hold their value as they are well known and well established.
"Rules" for second hand boats.
Make sure the sails are OK - as these can be a relatively big expense if they are not.
It is nice if the boat has had a history of being sailed until recently. If possible go for a test sail, if not see if they can rig it in their back yard you can see the process and make sure that the boat is more or less complete.
With hartleys they some are built fairly indifferently and may have rot. Use the handle of a screwdriver to tap all around the side of the boat listening for the tap tap to become a thud thud.
Thud = Dud unless it is localised. If Thud expand out wider checking adjacent structure.
Areas ... just under the deck edge, around the perimeter of the transom and down the stem along the centreline of the boat. Decks immediately adjacent to the cabin side and deck edge. Get inside the boat and do the same, particularly the stem and transom and hull deck and cabin deck join areas.
Oh and ask about the standing rigging (the wires that hold the mast up - if they are under five years and look OK they will be fine, but one of the cheapest bits to replace on an older boat usually are those wires - so it can be good insurance to replace them if in doubt about their age.
17th August 2009, 03:52 PM #6
I can generally agree with most of the comment given about both boats. The Weekender isn't as easy nor as quick a build as you'd think. The plans leave considerable to be desired and since it's a "glue and screw" job, it's heavy with lots of little pieces to buy, fashion and install.
Given your sailing area and requirements, Weekender wouldn't be my recommendation, even though I've modified a few keels for folks I know who own them. My adjustments have improved their sailing abilities, but the boat still has limitations, particularly the conditions it can handle before you should run for cover.
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