Thread: Strip Built Canoe

Matt
Looks even more impressive, if that's possible, out on the water.
I take it the christening went well. Looks fantastic.
I have a bunch of q's as well but some of them are covered by Dingo the others, if they're still relevant can be posted later but one did you use bead and cove strips cos it doesn't look like it in the earlier photos. If not why did you choose to do a rolling bevel and would you do it like this again?

First of all. Thanks to everyone who has said something about the canoe. I really appreciate the comments and compliments, it is great to find so many people interested in wooden canoe building.
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Now to the specific questions that Wild Dingo raised.

1) with the seat... did the plans for that come with the plans for the canoe? or did you buy it complete? how do you find the leading edge? being as they dont appear to be rounded very much does it cut into the backs of your thighs?

** The plans did come with seat plans. I used them for the frames but did pick up Gil Gilpatricks book on Canoe building. I used this to learn how to cane the seats. I did have to order plastic cane from the US AUD$50 as I could find none in OZ. The seats cost about $35 in materials per seat. Significantly cheaper than buying a complete seat, plus I now know how to recane my mothers outdoor seats.

I did "pencil" round the edges of the seats so there are no hard edges. The caned seats are very comfortable. It does take time to do each seat but I'm really glad I did. They look great, at least to0 every one that has seen the seats, and my bum has no complaints thus far.<o></o>

2) how were the plans? I had heard that some of GlenLs plans were lacking a lot of info still doable but plans not complete or unclear and they had to fudge it as they went is this what you found?

**Everything that was important was well described. As I mentioned above I did pick up a book on strip building canoes. I used the plans, instructions, and the book to guide me. This was my first ever boat building experience so when in doubt I referred to all available resources inc internet but ultimately used my common sense. It was not rocket science.

3) Are the paddles your design?

** No, I used Gil Gilpatrick plans. They are a laminate of ash and WRC shaped to the plans in the book.
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4) how much do you estimate it cost from woe to go?

** All up, excluding tools that I bought, it was about $2000 inc paddles and frames. In retrospect could it have been done cheaper? Yes. I think I could have done it for about $1700. I did have wood, epoxy, fibreglass cloth and some tools (unused) left over. However some of the wood I will recycle into new projects. The frames I will use to make a work bench from. The tools I will use again. I did note that a commercial Canoe of the same weight would have cost me about $2500 and paddles of similar quality would have been about $100 per paddle. I have no regrets when it comes to the cost and time taken. It was a great project.

5) Would you do it again? If so what would you change if anything? If not why not?

** I would build another. I do have another project in mind first though; Next time around I'd investigate using balsa instead of WRC and use 4oz cloth to build it light.
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6) What made you choose that design over the plethoria of others available?<o></o>

** Ummmm.. to tell the truth... I had four beers one night and just ordered the plans. They turned up and I started!
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7) Do you think the 16fter will be amply big enough for a family of two adults and two wee nippers? what about gear? camping stuff etc?
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</o>** The plans allow to build as a 16' or a 17'. I build the 17' version. Interestingly, I have a family of two adults and two nippers. The Canoe rides well with three adults in it (3x80kgs, total 240 Kg) plus case of beer and other items. I don't think that there will be any issue with the family and camping stuff on board.
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Regards,

Matthew<o></o><o></o>

Great answers Matt

I noticed you have Gils book which Ive also got in it he gives plans for several canoes (if its the same book of course) would you make one from his book next time?

Also mate you told us you have a missus and 2 nippers! so it wasnt a guess... I was wondering if you thought it would do the trick... you say youve had 3 adults in it without any probs but see 2 nippers are mighty wriggly creatures and therefore a lot different load than 3 adults who know better than to wriggle squiggle and phart around... was wondering how you thought it would go let me know when you try it out?... oh by the way I have 8 of them little creatures (only half of mine are older now and would be highly offended at bein called nippers)

With regard to Gils book again... what do you think of the big (20ft??) one at the back the Laker I think its called? Now that would be a family camping canoe eh!!

mmmm the having to buy the cane ex US is interesting can you pm me the details? I havent gotten that far as yet but will do in the not to far distant future so may as well get the cane in now than later... a nice sit back winter job eh?!

Thanks for the info mate

Enjoy yourself

Note to Ramps... yeah mate Ive begun the Wee Lassies... AGAIN... this time Im going to bloody well finish them! And they wont be made of Tuart either

Matt (and all others),
In the August "The Australian Woodworker" there is an article on "Building a Woodstrip Canoe".

The author made a 4935mm long strip canoe from The Bear Mountain Boat Co plans - "Chestnut Prospector".

In the article he talks about making the stem mould and using 12 x 1200mm long pieces of 6 x 19 mm hardwood to make the inner and outer stem.

What is a STEM?
Where does the inner stem go?
What does the inner stem do?

He then lays the first plank on each side along the sheerline, and then the stem is faired so the first plank lies against it.

What does this mean?

Can someone describe what the outer stem does when it is laid over the finished hull.

Thanks

Clinton
About to tackle the my first canoe so no expert on the story.
I had read Nick Schade's Strip Built kayak and had no idea what a stem was as his designs (and many other kayaks) don't have a stem (niether inner or outer) but as I started my study of canoes (canadian like ... as per the Aust WW)

I discovered that the strips on the side of the boat attach to a bow and stern stem at the front/back these are often a series of bent thin strips of hardwood (or a steam bent piece/s) so they are the same shape of the bow/stern. This inner stem piece is temporarily attached to the the end mould or form that points the front/back of the boat. In Matts first pic the start of this thread the end of all the strips are attached to inner stem. To attach the strips to the inner stem the stem piece has to somewhat resemble the angle the the strips approach. So the stems are "faired" to form the same angle before the strips are attached.

The third pic shows where Matt has attached the outer stem to the bow. It is obvious as Matt's stem is a contrasting piece (normally fairly resilient) timber wrapped around the bow, to take the knocks of coming into shore etc.and to finish the boat nicely.

enough talk have a look at Ross's site (Blue Heron Kayaks for a blow by blow pictorial of the process ... a Wee Lassie in the link below but this guy has a fantastic site.

http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/kayak/wlii/stripping.htm
Hope this has been more of a help than confusion

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Matt (and all others),
In the August "The Australian Woodworker" there is an article on "Building a Woodstrip Canoe".

The author made a 4935mm long strip canoe from The Bear Mountain Boat Co plans - "Chestnut Prospector".

In the article he talks about making the stem mould and using 12 x 1200mm long pieces of 6 x 19 mm hardwood to make the inner and outer stem.

As I get REALLY confused with mm measurements as Im a dinosour in that I learnt feet inch stuff and havent yet been able to convert the two so I stay with what I know... so I will leave that bit alone

Originally Posted by Clinton1

What is a STEM?

The curved end peice at the front and back of a canoe

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Where does the inner stem go?

It is the inside stem which after building you dont very often see... if you imagine the stem peices as two peices both cut in half longways and separated now of each peice you cut in two one peice put to one side the other put onto the stem mould... the planks (strips) are then laid around the canoe moulds meeting at the stem peice... this is the "inner stem" that they lay on

Originally Posted by Clinton1

What does the inner stem do?

It gives a place for the strips to lay on whilst building the canoe... this inner stem must be faired (shaped) to give the fairest curve to the ends

Originally Posted by Clinton1

He then lays the first plank on each side along the sheerline, and then the stem is faired so the first plank lies against it.

What does this mean?

Fairing in its simplest form means to make the curve (shape) even and smooth... so in the above quote hes saying that the inner stem peices are laminated and fitted to the stem mould BEFORE he begins the planking process... the sheerline is the top line of the boat that you see in the water... so with a canoe that is built on moulds UPSIDE down the sheerline is the first plank you lay (the keel being the top of the upside down canoe and the last part of the planking process)... and as the sheer is the line that people see when they look at the finished boat... and that forms the beauty of the shape as people will see it IN the water this "sheerline" must be as near to perfect as one can get this is done by sighting along the "line" as you "lay" or fix the first plank to the moulds... you do this by getting down and sighting along that first plank from all angles to be sure its "fair" as in to be sure theres no ridges hard spots or other imperfections to the line that the first plank (sheer) makes... If you dont get the sheerline right it will be bloody obvious because every other plank mates with it and any inacuracy will exacerabate the further you plank

For example if say you have a bump between the first mould and the stem on one side and you dont correct it by "fairing" that bump will distort the shape more with each following plank... okay fairing in this instance would mean backing the plank of and planing the mould or stem whichever has the bump until the plank lays nice and smooth... if you have a bump on the stem and leave it and not fair it down you will have some seriously weird stem when you get halfway around it as each subsequent plank will be more distorted... so you "fair" it... sight it as per below

So once you have the plank onto the moulds all the way (temporarily clamping or screwing them to the moulds) you need to fair the inner stem so that the ends of the boat make a smooth transition... this means that you will have to plane the inner stems to allow the first "sheer" plank to lay nice and "fair" all the way from one stem around the moulds to the other stem...

Once you have the inner stems "faired" to the sheer you work your way up the moulds around the turn and to the keel planing the inner stem as you go so the whole way around is "fair" in other words smooth even and without distortion or defect in how the planks lay... which bend you will find interesting to make the planks meet the keel at which point you will definantly APPRECIATE having a japanese dukusi saw!

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Can someone describe what the outer stem does when it is laid over the finished hull.

Thanks

The outer stem covers the planks directly over the inner stem... this serves a multitude of purpose... 1) it gives added protection to the stems of the boat for beaching as per Ramps comments and 2) it protects the ends of the planks from water ingress and keeps it altogether 3) it is also faired to the shape of the sheer and the turn of the planks at the widening (narrowing depending on your view) of the boat to bring them into a smooth point ending (this is not necessarily a sharp point but rather a smooth ending...

A boat no matter if a canoe or a large schooner must a) have a smooth and "fair" sheerline to look good a poorly built boat with a poorly executed sheerline will look like shyte... b) must have smooth transitions around the stem (s) and into the transom... boats are curves sharp abrupt angles have no place on a boat (old shipwright saying )


Okay all up?

1) The sheerline is the line you see when you look at a boat normally the line that lines with the deck on a larger boat but essentially the top most plank or strip

2) The inner stem is the stem laid on the mould to form the shape of the stem

3) The outer stem is the covering stem that covers the planks at the ends

4) To make a boat "fair" or "fairing" is the process of making the boats turns sweeps and shape smooth without irregularities bumps defects or other that would distort or show badly in and on the boat... it is also why one sands and sands and sands the hull when completely planked so that the body of the hull is "fair" and smooth with no distortion

Another point I will make is that some people cut the planks across the stem others cut the planks on an angle to the stem... either will work... the across the stem method will mean a wider stem is all the angle to the stem method will mean a smaller stem... so when you place your outer stem you will either have a wide final stem or a smaller final stem this of course is your choice as to which you prefer on looking at Matts Id assume he cut the planks on an angle to the stems rather than across the planks as the stem ends are small and the outter stem is neat in its look... more often than not those that have made the accross the stem cuts to their planks have a larger stem peice than Matts show (however I reserve the right to be wrong here cause Matt didnt say which way he went! gotta cover me bum somehow! )

Final point... on larger boats there is generally (and this is a generalization as with all things boats there are always compromises and alternatives to the rules) but generally and without going into specifics or great detail they have but one stem (unless its a double ender) that is attached to the keel they larger boats have whats called a "rabbet line" and "profile line" and even in some boats such as Al Mason's Sorkust (1930 double ender) a "ghost line" cut into the stem and keel into which the plank is attached so that the plank becomes part of the keel and the keel and stem peice becomes part of the plank or strip making for a smooth fair transition... the rabbet profile and ghost line are made so that the plank fits perfectly into the keel or stem timber and no plank ends show thus keeping water out of the ends of the planks... a canoe bein so small and without any serious keel does not require these lines... but does use an inner and outer stem peice instead to serve just the same purpose to keep the water out of the strip planks ends and to look sweet and "fair"

That Clinton is a very very VERY generalised comment and not a very good one Im afraid... but Im tryin to be helpfull here and hope I havent confused you even more!

Cheers!!

Note I love boattalkin!!

Thanks fella's.

I have a few more questions after reading your answers, but I think it might be better to pm them or start a new thread.

Again, thanks

No Clinton... well if you must ... but either keep posting here (Im sure Matt wont mind will you mate?) or make the new thread so others can see read and comment mate only real way to keep getting the info out there and hell even us old pharts can learn too!!

I think that the laker was designed with a flat stern to allow an outbourd motor to be attached. I think that it would be a great canoe for longer trips.